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Episode 041 – Why people are afraid to sell, why it has a bad rep, beliefs that are stopping you making sales, changing these beliefs, becoming better at sales and more

Show Notes – Episode 041 – Why people are afraid to sell, why it has a bad rep, beliefs that are stopping you making sales, changing these beliefs, becoming better at sales and more

When someone’s asked the question – ‘Do you sell something?’. Often the response is no. Because the assumption is unless I have a product or service, I am not selling anything. When in reality we are all selling and being sold to on a daily basis.

Selling your children on the idea to eat their vegetables, selling society on the idea of a better way of living, Presidents selling voters on the idea of electing them, Selling your spouse on what movie to watch on the weekend. Right through to the norm I described, selling your product and service.

When selling your product and service people also fall short. ‘Around 80 per cent of UK companies fail within their first year and, according to the latest figures from the Office for National Statistics.’ Although surveys believe that the cause of failure includes no business plan, cash flow problems, misunderstanding of business concepts, don’t value data, don’t understand the market place and there isn’t a disaster plan. We believe this doesn’t get to the root cause. A key one being, the ability to sell.

Where Ro has coached thousands of struggling business owners over the years, an open-ended question – ‘How are sales going within the business?’, elicits similar responses:

‘I can’t sell’

‘I don’t know how to sell’

‘I am uncomfortable selling’

‘I don’t want to be a sleazy salesperson’

‘People won’t like it when I sell to them’

‘I can’t hire a salesperson, they won’t understand the product as I do’

For this reason, we wanted to explore the subject of sales and in the process challenge anyone’s negative beliefs on selling. The outcome being you become to see the benefits of embracing this essential business & life skill.

On this show we answer the following questions:

  • What is sales? In the context of business and non-business?
  • How can you spot negative beliefs around selling?
  • How to paint a new picture in your mind to get comfortable with selling?
  • Where has the negative belief of selling come from?
  • Why is it important you embrace this skill?
  • Even though it’s so important, why does it still have a bad rep?
  • What are the common reasons people are afraid of selling?
  • What are the key qualities of an authentic salesperson?
  • How can you change your belief system and get comfortable with selling?
  • And so much more…

To help you with the action segment of the show, here is a 7 step process to get started with to overcome any personal blocks you have with selling:

  1. Self-worth – work on understanding any blocks here.
  2. Know your Value – there is a difference why some people can charge £10k and another £1k for the same service.

Notice how we first work on you, then get to the business of sales. Most people skip this step and focus solely on ‘sales techniques’ and wonder why they don’t work. They will work, if you start with steps 1 & 2.

  1. Know your product and its value – now we shift the value assessment onto your business
  2. Capture why what you have to sell is great for your customers – put yourself in the shoes of your customer during this exercise. 
  3. Understand your products – basic Benefits and Features. Apply the Communicating With Impact™ process here.
  4. Practice on a small scale with authenticity and passion explaining these
  5. Now deep dive on the skill of sales by exploring Communicating With Impact™. The free discovery webinar is a good place to start:

Continue reading for full show notes. Thank you for listening to the Seekardo Show.

Affiliate disclaimer: NO links on this page or products discussed during the episode have an affiliate or advertising association with the Seekardo Show. Please support us via the supporter programme if you wish to help.

Harms: Hello it’s Harms here and welcome to another episode of the Seekardo show. Now if you’re listening to this, I suggest re-listening to it when you finish because I have a feeling, bearing in mind the experience at hand here with myself and Ro on the topic of what we’re going to talk about. 

There will be a lot of takeaways. 

Before we get to that let me start with painting a picture about the latest statistics around business success and that is around 80% of UK companies fail within the first year and according to the latest figures from the office of National statistics, it gets a lot worse in year three and then a lot worse in year five. 

I want to focus on just the first year here, which is when 80% of UK companies fail within their first year. Which is crazy, a crazy high number and interestingly when I was looking at the statistics the language used to describe the companies within this statistical category are described as a business birth, business death and business survival. 

Just a strange terminology considering how much passion and enthusiasm business owners put into these projects of theirs. I think it shows just how incredibly courageous new business owners actually are. 

When you deep dive this survey a few reasons the survey discovered the cause of these failures include no business plan, cash flow problems, misunderstanding of the business concepts themselves, the business owners don’t value the data coming into the business and they don’t understand the marketplace and they don’t have a disaster plan. Now, bearing in mind the world where we are, I don’t want to address the topic of that kind of disaster plan, but it could just be as simple as no customers for a month, no cash flow for a month, that kind of disaster plan. 

This being said, I personally don’t think this gets to the root cause this is a surface level survey because there will be a few causes and one area in particular knowing the experience Ro has in this area, is to help listeners today on the topic of sale. Why I think this is the root cause is because most business owners, employees, audience members, Seekardo listeners we meet consult with, coach and advise, et cetera this very topic keeps coming up again and again and again. When we often ask them about sales how are sales going, what’s the sales system you have in place? 

Their response and often phrases we get back are to the tune of I can’t sell. I don’t know how to sell; I am uncomfortable selling my product and service. I don’t want to be that sleazy salesperson, stereotypical sleazy salesperson and if I sell to people, they just won’t like me, they won’t like the fact that I’m selling to them. That’s the introduction and hopefully by now you realise that we are talking about the topic of sales. 

Hi Ro after that long introduction does this ring true in your experience?

Dr Ro: Hi everybody, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us, always extremely grateful for that. This is a huge subject and it’s one that I think is going to warrant maybe different segmented podcasts. 

You talked about different stages of business that’s scary when you hear that being used and is being used a lot at the moment. We’ve experienced an incredible upheaval as a result of Covid but actually Covid is just one of those big looming giants that sits in the background of statistics that have always been there. 

I’ve quoted that 80% figure globally now for probably 10,15, 20 years or more and it doesn’t matter which country I go to. I get this quiet nod from people and there’s acceptance that yeah a lot of businesses do fail. 

But the problem with that Harms and I think you’ll agree with this is imagine going into a business understanding that there is a very high probability that you’re going to fail. If that unconsciousness goes deep enough and you start going out to try and sell yourself and sell your products or your service and there’s any slight doubt in what you’re offering that’s going to show up with your client. 

Let’s broaden this to just selling in general, so it could be on a personal level, selling yourself to other people. 

Such that anybody listening to this might be single and thinking I haven’t been doing too well on my dates and I am not sure what it is. Probably because you can’t sell yourself and jokes aside that’s all we’re doing when we’re going out on a date. We’re selling ourselves. I agree it is a big subject and I think it would be great to tackle it as gloves off hands-on deep dive let’s not mess around. 

I started genuinely selling a product or service late teens and early 20s. I actually got involved with a network marketing business and I genuinely didn’t know how to do it. I ran a school tuck shop selling sweets and things like that and I was asked to go promote things at school when events were going on because I seemed to have this natural gift and ability to talk to people in a certain way. I was often the person that was leading things that were going on at school campaigns. 

I remember at the age of 17 we had a business class that we used to run and we set up doing etched glasses and everyone had different roles, some people doing the design, etching, some people were organising the overall business, but I had a natural ability to sell these glasses to people. If you take it back to then 55 years of age that’s got to be like 30 years of experience doing this.

Harms: That is fascinating. 

Taking that experience and plugging that into this next question which is, from your context then and from your experience, what do you see sales as? 

What is sales and put that in the context of business and in the context of non-business as you described. I love the idea of broadening it because yes we are selling ourselves.

Dr Ro: From the point of those early days helping sell etched glasses and Twix I’ve gone on being privileged to be involved in selling a whole range of different products and services in essentially the area of education if I’m honest, because that’s my greatest passion. That’s equated to I can’t put a figure on it, but millions and millions and millions of pounds worth of sales. 

I remember the first time I realised my gosh I have sold over £1 million of the products and services and this is going back a few decades now, and then it starts to add up. I don’t make a big deal about it, it is not something I go around and I know we see people online promoting this saying I’ve done this and that. 

For anyone listening if you haven’t seen me in that context, you may have seen me helping you go through a transformation in your life, working with you from an interventional perspective coaching you, that’s my greatest passion. But in that passion has become this ability to enthusiastically and passionately show people how to make changes and with those changes they often have to buy products, services, et cetera. 

I’ve been doing it a long time, but also I want people to realise that Harms has also been in this field with me for some time as well, and in his own right has a great skill both in a verbal way to promote and to sell things, but also from a written perspective as well. 

If you’ve read any of the great newsletters and things that come out from our side and from my side, often Harms is instrumental in that in getting the words crafting in a certain way to help you to open up an email which often is selling you on the idea of I want to read this email.

Harms: Thanks for sharing that and when I was around 18, 19 years old I entered the world of network marketing as well. And one of the most incredible skills you will learn from a network marketing sort of business and operation is the art of selling, the science of selling, the ability to have to sell because that’s almost fundamental within that business model and then I left that that world for a while and then re-entered sales in my mid-20s. 

Probably five to seven years, but again like yourself actually started young, not as young as in school it wasn’t in my consciousness then, but from that perspective it’s fascinating. Taking both our experiences.

Dr Ro: So definitions.

This is a personal view I think in business it’s simply you as the person communicating with someone else in such a way that you’re giving them enough information to decide whether to acquire your product, your service. 

It’s as simple as that. I’m sharing something from my side. 

I believe it’s about what I do or what I’m offering you to a point where you say as I want this product or service. People do complicate it and it’s got lots of spins on it, but that’s all we’re doing we’re literally sharing something with somebody with enough information for them to make a decision. How that decision is made will be influenced by the sales process, the sales technique, et cetera. 

On a personal level, I think it’s a little bit softer than that. It’s really about you communicating with somebody in such a way which is the opening sentence to the other one, but the difference is such a way that you let your true self out. You allow them to experience your beliefs, who you are, your values, you’re selling. 

You’re going on a date and you’re letting that person know this is who I am. Unfortunately people go on dates and they are nervous because they’re almost afraid of how to be themselves, how to sell themselves without actually saying it that’s what they’re actually doing. 

You’re letting that person get a sense of who you are, what you stand for, this could be a potential partner, it could be just a straight date you’re going on. It could be that you are trying to sell yourself back to somebody this sounds weird where trust has been broken and that’s probably a big conversation to pick up actually as well. 

It could be a friendship where trust has been broken down and you’ve got to go back and sell yourself to them. It might be that you’re trying to persuade your kids to do something that you believe in and you want to encourage them to do the same thing, and of course you’re selling yourselves to them as well. 

I believe it’s more than anything else people’s belief about sales and selling. It is the belief that they carry that’s the biggest challenge.

The fundamental bigger issue rather than focusing on sales techniques, et cetera at this stage we’re saying that it’s somebody’s belief around this definition of sales and selling themselves.

If I said to you what you see out there, Harms and it’s important to understand we’re talking about sales but we’re not salespeople in the sense of we’re not engaged as salespeople in a business as such. But we are all salespeople because we’re selling everything from an idea, a concept, a movie. 

My question to you is what do you pick up from people? 

What do you pick up from their resistance to selling?

Harms: I think it does tie back into what you said, which is the beliefs around selling and sales. It’s almost like when the person is with us or when somebody’s been sold to and I’ve observed this as a third party watching two people interact even in the simplest place at a shop. 

The belief is so damaging from both sides sometimes which is, I get a feeling of and hear sometimes phrases where people are thinking selling is this distasteful. They just don’t like the taste of being sold to or selling, a lot of people think sales is just a forceful mechanism and that’s another negative belief. I see people maybe have a picture in their mind of salespeople they just automatically picture somebody in a car showroom trying to sell you in a second second-hand showroom selling you a car and giving you 10% off. 

On a trading floor famous films like Wolf of Wall Street and they just feel like that’s so aggressive, so that turns them off the whole concept of selling themselves and being sold to. I see people who are extremely uncomfortable when they’re selling their product. 

They may have spent years and years and years developing the product and when they go to sell it they’re uncomfortable, which is also a strange concept and a challenge with their belief system. 

People think that selling is just not the right way to do it. They think that if I create something people should just come and buy it. If my product is good enough that old cliché if I build it they will come, if my product is good enough it will sell itself, which is so far from the truth. Unbelievable. If that was the case everybody who created something would be a millionaire and it is not the case. 

I think these are common things that float about in either internal feelings or vocalised externally that I’ve seen. I think I’ve seen it in both generations. It hasn’t really changed when it comes skipping generations apart from the online world. 

I think that’s the feeling that my generation and your generation has around this.

Dr Ro: It’s true and I know we’ve got listeners from all around the world at the moment, so different cultures, different societies perceive it in a different way they react to it in a different way. 

So, for example, I think in the USA there is more of an acceptance to it, it doesn’t mean people still don’t like being sold to but the style is different. In the UK it’s more conservative. I remember American speakers coming over when I was teaching over here. They came in and  were involved with some of the stuff that we were doing early on and their style for the UK audience seemed quite aggressive and abrasive. 

That again creates a resistance some countries just do not accept that whereas if you go to India everyone is trying to sell you something.

Harms: Every single person in every corner, every street market.

Dr Ro: In that sense it isn’t seen in the same way. 

I remember being in Egypt and I was walking through one of these amazing marketplaces and I’m standing there looking at something with my fiancé and these people were trying to sell me something and there’s another guy who openly came up saying you don’t want to go to him you come to me, my stuff is a lot better. 

As I’m walking into him there’s another person just across and grabs me before I get to the second stall and they are doing it in a way that it’s just hey, I’ve got something to sell here. Because it was the norm no one feels phased by it, except the tourists who go in and they’re either fascinated or phased by it. 

It is an amazing subject and I think the more we step back from it and look at it in a different way, and accept that everybody reacts differently then it changes the way we are as a salesperson and we are always going to be selling and I’m going to keep saying that all the way through this podcast. 

A classic example is I was doing an event probably about three or four years ago a property -related event and it was with the Rich Dad organisation. This guy came up on Friday afternoon and said I can see what you’re doing. I said what am I doing? He said, you’re basically going to be selling us on some of these education programs you’ve already been talking about today. I can tell I’m in sales. I said what sales are you in? 

He said I run a shop, but I can tell what you’re doing. I said great you can tell that part of what you’ve got to do after this weekend is these three days of property training, how long have you been running your shop? He goes 15 years. Could you have run your shop  smoothly after three days? 

He said no it took me years just to follow in my father’s footsteps before I opened up. I said exactly so you’ve got your training hands-on, but it took you a long time, all I’m saying is you want to do this quickly go and educate yourself properly, do it with the right people and you’ll accelerate the process. 

He looked at me and said okay and walked off and accepted it because I was just being honest with that. If I’d been resistant to that I felt that it was distasteful what I was doing and felt uncomfortable with his nature that would have affected me and all the other hundred people in the room. 

I wouldn’t have been able to explain the education and teach them at the same time, I would have been focused on him. It was his block not my block.

Harms: The irony there is within his shop he would be selling. 

I am always fascinated when a salesperson gets offended or upset when somebody else is selling to them, although I’m not a salesperson in the context of I don’t phone people or sell  in that scenario for a company, et cetera but as a salesperson within my own business and promoting myself and selling stuff on a daily basis, selling my wife on ideas. 

I am over the moon when somebody sells me something and it’s probably strange to listeners but I enter this environment to be sold to. But to me that means something different. I want to ask you how can we help the listeners and from your experience, what you’ve done there with that person is reframe sales. 

So with people working in this field what do you recommend are better ways for them to retell the story to them, reframe the story to them just as I did many years ago.

Dr Ro: If you listened to what Harms said, he said I’m not in the sales business in the same way, maybe I’m on the phone calling people and again this is down to perception as well. So even what you just said there and this is a great conversation to have between somebody that is 20,30 years older. 

When I grew up that’s exactly what the main concept of sales was. 

It was somebody in a big building literally with a script with a whole bunch of phone numbers and that’s what they did, cold call. 

When you made that reference you’re almost referring to the concept of somebody who is employed just to sell straight to customers.

Harms: Correct, and there’s nothing wrong with that and I’ll talk about that later in the context.

Dr Ro: What we are saying is somebody who is actually in the role of pure sales. When I go up and educate people from a property perspective or even one of my own events. Here I am at an event which was essentially created to deliver content, which was then going to be part of a book, so I had no intention of offering anything beyond the weekend. 

We didn’t intend to offer any other training, although we could have done.

What was really interesting was the fact that people were coming up and saying what will you be offering us? I was like, there’s nothing on offer. The truth is that when people are in the right space and they’re learning something passionately and they can see its value they can also say to themselves, I want more and in that space it’s okay to be promoting. 

The difference would have been if I’d tried to sell them something that weekend, which I didn’t do any promotion at all, but if I tried to sell something which wasn’t right for them and I think that’s where people get uncomfortable Harms. 

You’ve seen certain events where it feels like the speaker is selling something for the sake of it or the person in the shop is trying to sell you the jumper on the rack over there, but I wasn’t looking for a jumper but a T-shirt. That type of sales creates a wedge between the customer and the potential salesperson. 

I’m trying to cross over into what we do in our field. Even here on Seekardo. 

We encourage people to go and support us, they don’t have to support us, but if they do support us it helps us continue to do the great work that we are doing. We’re not ramming it down their throats. We’re not saying go support us but it’s not going to serve you at all but support us anyway. 

We do know that by them supporting it allows us to do other great things and bring a guest on et cetera. It’s a really subtle process and it’s a lot deeper than I think most people realise.

Harms: That’s such a valid point. 

That’s already given us the context to reframe and we’ve gone really deep there with the subtleties of that experience. Now if we bring it back to the surface for a moment. 

How can people typically reframe this in their mind when it comes to whether selling or being sold to? 

I don’t really like the phrase of being sold to, this is the part of the process we’re going to reframe now if I was to say how would I reframe that, it’s educating somebody on the product I have to purchase. 

If I’m going to a tracking shop I want to look at the latest trekking boots I want somebody to talk through the products and then I can say yes, now I’m making an educated decision.

Dr Ro: If we walked in there one of us would say to the guy sell us on this product. I don’t mind saying that because it’s actually in a way, it takes away the mask and allows them to go right, let me tell you about this product. 

They want to, but they also might have a perception that you might not like to be sold to how we walk into a shop for example. 

Our body language gives an instant clue to an educated salesperson on whether I want to be sold to or not some people will leave you alone. They carefully position themselves as they know it’s not right to talk to this person. Others go diving in because you look enthusiastic. You and I walked into that climbing shop enthusiastically we want to be sold to.

Harms: In that you are going to get the best of the quote on quote salesperson and interestingly me and my wife do this when we go to the local bakery, sell us on which is the best cake we should buy today. 

It’s that enthusiasm I think that reframe is important for our listeners.

Dr Ro: The whole point of Seekardo is that we’re constantly challenging everything that is said, even ourselves we will be conscious of that. 

When we use terms like quote on quote, that is the norm for people because they almost don’t know how to use that word they don’t want to say that word. 

I think for the sake of the rest of the podcast let’s just use the word being sold to in sales and people need to get comfortable with it because in the context of the question you’re asking me in business, it’s basically getting your message across exactly what you just said there actually. 

Promoting yourself, helping people decide going into a shop I’m a salesperson, but what I’m doing is helping that person decide to want the jumper or the T-shirt. Everything I’m saying here is a belief, every single one of these is a belief that I have about what I do when I’m selling an idea or concept of a product or service to somebody, so it’s helping that person decide. It’s aligning what you have with what other people want. 

You’re selling yourself; you’re showing your value; that’s another great way to see sales. You’re showing your products value and service so that goes back to whether it’s a communications product, a property product, an online building or a business online product. 

It is giving a clear message about what you or what  your product does and what it doesn’t do as well, so you’re straight about it. The product doesn’t do this, what it does do is this. If you’re looking for that then we don’t have that product, or you want our other product over here. It is being really clear about that and it is promoting what’s great about you and your product.

I think that’s what it is from a business concept.

Harms: If somebody listens to this and you have the belief that your product is amazing, you’ve spent time building it. You’ve invested time, money, sweat, late nights and early mornings into your product. 

Now we have to transfer that belief into the sales process, which is what we’re talking about and going to be supporting you with in today’s episode.

 Exactly what you feel and think about your product is the way that we want to portray that internally and that will come out because what’s happening Ro is someone has this amazing product and they could’ve spent 10 years, a decade developing it five years developing it. Often it’s not that the product is bad, they just don’t know how to sell it.

They don’t believe in the sales part of that process whereas some people transfer the belief and move that into the sales process, they walk away with the money and that’s the result of you what. 

Let people have this amazing product because it solves their problem.

Dr Ro: If you’ve ever read any of the E myth Michael Gerber books he has a whole range of books, but the fundamental book is all about the concept that the entrepreneur myth and somebody can be a technician i.e. not sitting there doing a mechanical process. 

Technician meaning that you are actually the person that is creating things in the business, then you’ve got the person that is managing the process. Then there’s the entrepreneur going out and coming up with ideas and the salesperson and unfortunately if you’re self-employed you’re going to be all of those things. 

We tend to gravitate to what we are great at. If you’re a creative style person you’re going to be stuck in that space of wanting to create and do all these amazing things. I use the word stuck, because that’s what you love to be. But then when you move yourself out to try and sell that you feel uncomfortable. I like being in this place where I create things. I hate selling things, which is what you’re saying and that’s where the whole thing breaks down. 

I think what Harms has raised is an important point as well, which is you’ve got to realise that if you’ve spent all this time, you could spend three, four, five years creating it so many businesses failed having spent three or four, five years creating something and then after a year it doesn’t work. 

As he quoted the statistics earlier on they freaking go and do another business try something different or they revert back to what they were doing in the past and so they spend more time in the creation than the actual mastering the skill of selling, or finding someone they can educate on the product to go sell it. 

That’s another fear people have is paying other people to sell their products. On a personal level remember we’re talking about selling you so few things here This is more of a personal development reframe on your beliefs, but I’m a good person, remind yourself I’m a great person and a good person. I’ve got a good heart, I’m worthy, I’m loving, honest and these are words I’m sure you know are true about yourself. 

However, for some reason, you may not be selling that to somebody else. I can talk about myself in a sincere way that should be an absolute statement belief that you hold dear to yourself. 

So when you’re sitting down on a date and you’ve got this unconscious belief that you are not good at selling yourself well, why don’t you reframe that to say I can talk about myself in a sincere way because I know I’m a worthy person. I can connect with people and have great value and I have something valuable to bring to this relationship. 

That’s the approach you have to go in with the beliefs that you need to have in order for you to be yourself, because that’s all you need to be in order to sell yourself.

Harms: That’s interesting and what I want to say here is when it comes to the personal side. 

If you’re unsure that your personal beliefs are linked to your inability to sell, then think of a scenario where and I’ve seen this when I’ve been on the other side of the table interviewing people and been on the other side of the table where I’ve been the interviewee. 

One of the things I noticed is when the question gets asked what are your strengths, what are you good at? Often the person who has a fundamental belief issue with selling can’t do exactly what Ro said they can’t put across that they are a good person. 

They’re worthy, they have a good intention, they’re honest, loving, hard-working often they struggle to answer those questions. If you have ever been in the scenario where you’re preparing or in the scenario have struggled to answer that question, then you have this challenge and I would sit up and listen to this episode because one of the things that we want to do is help resolve this challenge.

Dr Ro: I think you’ve raised a very good point and often people don’t want to say how great they are.

As people think themselves as being egotistical, so a way you could phrase that is to say it’s a good question, and if you asked my mother, friend which is a great third-party reference one of the qualities that I know they would say about me is boom, boom, boom. 

If you do it that way it’s quite a clever way of articulating something without it being so self-professing and you doing it from the eyes of somebody else. If you’re uncomfortable with it a soft way to do it is to go through a third voice if you like.

Harms:The reason I raise that Ro is think about where the world is right now when we look at some amazing people doing amazing things outside of the business world and I’m thinking scientists, people in the medical profession and often researchers within these fields have to raise money. 

I’ve been watching some fasting documentaries recently and they need to go and raise money. But there are some highly intelligent people who just are unable to raise money for their research to continue working towards these fantastic causes which help human mankind, et cetera but they can’t sell. 

One thing I observed is they can’t sell the idea they know it’s great, but when it comes to pitching for the money, so that they can change the world essentially, they can’t sell. On a personal level, it’s so mentally challenging.

Dr Ro: The challenge is they can’t sell because they think the value of what they’re doing is in what they’re doing, as opposed to selling what they’re doing. I’ve created this incredible thing all this research and surely that’s enough and you said it, surely people should just buy it. 

But if that was the case, why is it that the top car manufacturers for example, are constantly advertising themselves? 

Why is it you’ve got soda pop companies spending millions and millions of pounds on advertising almost on a monthly basis to let people know they’re there? Because we are distracted as a human race, there are so many other choices. 

If I create this incredible piece of research there are people out there that may want my research, but also looking at maybe 20 or 30 other people’s research as well, and I don’t know you’re there. It comes down to valuing the process of selling what you’ve spent these years putting time into it’s not just about the creation of something, but it’s now about explaining to people why this is so amazing. 

You’ve spent all these years doing it, creating it, researching the product to sell but now you’ve got to let people know why you think it’s amazing. A lot of people don’t see that as a valuable process. It is as valuable if not more than the creation of it because if you can’t sell it the creation becomes a redundant process. Sorry to be brutal, but that is the truth.

Harms: I absolutely agree and big businesses understand this, so they do it. They hire entire sales forces; they hire entire departments which are focused on selling the product, but as an individual we don’t think that applies to us when it applies to us doubly as important because we don’t think it applies to us.

 When it applies to us doubly as important as we don’t have these big budgets, so we have to really respect this process and understand that if I don’t take this part seriously, this could be the lifeblood of my business and without it I don’t have a business.

Dr Ro: I had that experience in 2006/07 I spent a whole year maybe 50, 80, 100 grand creating a product and we were so focused on the product itself, where we flawed ourselves was on the sale of that product. I fell exactly into the E myth process of being the person doing the creating, but we hadn’t engaged or worked with anyone to really go out and promote it. 

When I say promote, think of it like this: you create a product, you then market that product and then tuck behind that marketing you’ve now got to close people on the product. 

Now they’re aware of it, marketing has made them aware of it, now you’ve got the right process to sell it. Those last two elements are what caused the business to fail and actually I fell into one of those statistics of a business that fail within two, two and a half years, having spent that time creating it. Hence as a bit of pain associated with the subject.

Harms: That pain is coming across to the listener to say take this seriously and you mentioned the word marketing there, so can I just take a moment to share from my perspective another way that the listeners can reframe this, but understand it from a business point of view. 

In my field for example, and this is my personal point of view, but is shared by some of the biggest experts on the planet when it comes to the subject. My specialty is coming from a marketing angle and an online business background and my philosophy is this is, although there’s nothing wrong with the cold contact of people that is a function, there’s personally I think a better way to do it, which helps you reframe and understand where does sales sit in the function of the business. 

When you cold call somebody I think this is where people have a distaste potentially if you are selling to them without permission and that’s a fundamental flaw in the business model. It still works and is still relevant for certain products, but it may not be relevant for yourself.

This is the assumption at the moment. 

If you have got your marketing right and the assumption is you have got your marketing right, that is what’s needed to then help you sell because what that means is people now in front of you, the people in your database. 

Your customer database, your email list. People walking to the front of the shop they have aligned with your marketing. Meaning you did a fantastic job in letting them know and this is the fundamental thing to underline is you can solve their problem. What this means in the simplest form is they’re saying to you yes, I’m interested in what you have to offer. I’m excited about what you have to offer and I want to hear more. 

At this point, bearing in mind you’ve done all the great work when it comes to marketing and telling people that you can solve their problem, at this point now it’s your duty and Ro this is a word you’ve taught me, it’s your duty to educate the customer on what your offer is and what your product is and what the service is. 

Because you have the solution to their problem and we know that it’s okay to sell to them because they gave you permission and that’s the key. It’s known as permission marketing that is very different to selling someone who is not asked to be sold to. 

Ensure that within a business, you differentiate the two one is selling to somebody who has not been asked to sell to versus somebody showing up at your front door and they’re saying please tell me more about the product. 

Big distinction, especially in the online space. 

This is a fundamental principle. I guess the message here is people need to just be 100% okay, remove these belief blocks and talk to people who are saying I want to be talked to. Interestingly there’s an old cliché and I’ve had this said to me on occasion which is, salesperson to salesperson and they said to me that was a great experience and you really helped solve my problem with this product. 

The phrase they use is you could sell ice to an Eskimo. 

That cliché paints the wrong picture in my opinion, because based on what I’ve said here you don’t want to sell ice to an Eskimo you want to sell them a fresh warm tomato soup. 

The Eskimo would have said to you that’s what I’m here to purchase tell me which fish you’ve got an offer which will make my tummy full today versus, this old cliché, which I think is the cliché which doesn’t reinforce the fact that selling is totally fine and we have to do it, which is you can sell ice to an Eskimo. I think that is the wrong approach.

Dr Ro: Let us take the example of that Eskimo who is looking for roasted fish. 

I’m looking to sell him a roasted fish but he wants fish soup. In this example, he comes looking and I say I don’t have any fish soup. What I got is this. At that point there I explain what the fish is, how it’s roasted, how it tastes, have a sample of it, and that’s me sharing what I’ve got in an enthusiastic way. 

He does want fish but happened to be looking for a fish soup. Ice is totally different. He’s got loads of ice but wants something to eat. He goes this is amazing, I’m going to try that and off he goes. It’s 100% about giving people what they are looking for, or at least if they’re not looking for that exact product it’s in the field of what they’re looking for. 

Where it gets frustrating I think for people is walking away being quote on quote convinced or sold something they actually didn’t want from the start and then years later, husband and wife say why did you buy that?

Harms: I think that’s where the bad vibes come from when actually if you do it in the approach that we just described and Ro has explained the Eskimo will thank you because they just experienced something new and roasted fish becomes a new favourite and that becomes a part of the thing that they purchase often. 

That’s the job of the product owner, the service owner and it’s essential. We’ve actually intertwined a few things here in this section where we spoke about the idea of reframing this in someone’s mind, but also why it’s critical to reframe this in your mind. 

Can you go through a list of things on why this is critical?

Dr Ro: Number one you’ve got something great to share with the world, you’ve spent time doing it, building it, creating it or researching it. Maybe you’ve created something of immense value that you know is useful and powerful and helpful to get it out there. 

Don’t be afraid to sell it. People are looking. 

We’ve 7 billion people on this planet and if you start to look at the people in the Western world where they are looking for specific types of products and you’re in that field of doing that you can create something or you have created something for them, then go show it to them. 

But equally in other countries that are less developed, or they have other needs, there are some amazing products being created even being sold through and provided to charities for example. Selling stretches even into the world of non-for profit. You want to get people to give money to a charity that’s going to support other people’s lives, so there’s a much bigger cause in this and I think that’s the thing to get across here. 

You have something meaningful and that’s really why you’re promoting it so you match the product with the person and with the price they’re looking for, that’s another important element as well. 

The truth is you’re always selling something always.

Harms: What do you mean by that?

Dr Ro: How often have you seen a film and you’re pumped. 

Just recently I think you dropped me a message to say Dave Chappell’s just done a cracking interview on Netflix with David Letterman. That was you selling me and going to watch that particular interview. 

That’s a classic example, it was done with enthusiasm. 

What do we know about that dynamic? You know that I know who Dave Chappell is. 

You also know I think he’s an amazing human being brings huge value to the world and has got a great message and does things in a very different way. You also know I like to learn from these experiences and take value from it. 

So from your perspective you’ve shared something with me, which you knew was of value to me. It wasn’t some crappy interview, it was done with absolute passion and I immediately jumped on and watched it. It could be that. It could be a podcast. 

That’s you being enthusiastic talking to a friend. Restaurants. 

How often have we gone to a restaurant that friends have recommended to us that’s selling, you’re selling someone on an idea of going and eating at this restaurant. In reality just get comfortable with the concept of selling and then modify the enthusiasm if you’re really good at doing this, if you can enthusiastically recommend a friend to read a book, watch a film, go to a restaurant whatever it is then take that enthusiasm put into a more structured approach and then use that approach to then promote your product or service. 

That’s a really good starting point. 

When I persuade people to go see a film I do it well. What am I doing there? Let me take that and transfer it across into business. I think that is a simple way to articulate it.

Harms: That is great and if you listen to this there are these action points all over this show so far and that’s a really fantastic one. 

One thing I want to add around the topic and something which I’ve only taken seriously quite recently, of course with the birth of our little baby boy and that is if I have a block with selling and it’s not to do a myth, et cetera.

If I have a belief block with selling one of the challenges I’m going to face as a parent is everybody else, the government the schools, the media in the form of advertising, TV shows, movies et cetera will be selling ideas, concepts, themes, culture to my child and if I have a block with that and the inability to sell then I won’t be able to get across the values or the characteristics that I think will help shape him to be an amazing human being in the world. 

Because the salespeople in terms of government et cetera will be more skilful and more influential than I will be as a parent. 

Now this only came to my awareness of course, after the birth of the little one and that is I was almost grateful for having the skill Ro, because if I didn’t have it I just essentially outsourced the selling of ideas and concepts and characteristics to everybody else and I don’t therefore have the ability to have a positive influence on my child in my house. Does that make sense? 

I am grateful for this ability to sell confidently with passion and excitement.


Dr Ro: I totally agree.

The trouble is, it’s the label that sales has been given. The minute you broaden that and you realise that it’s a skill that enables you to do so many more things on a personal level to support the world to support your family. 

I want my kids to be able to sell an idea to other people. I want them to be able to sell themselves. I was in the job world for a long time. 

We’ve interviewed people over the years that have come in and out of businesses and I’m looking for people that can openly promote themselves not in an egotistical way but in a way that is authentic

Harms: You mentioned something here, which is some people think it has a bad rep there’s still connotations or somebody thinks sales has a bad rep. 

But even though people know this, they won’t give the shift this bad rep that they’ve got in their mind. When I was growing up, I appreciated how hard it’s hard to move certain images from your minds. 

I’ve got the image of a car salesperson as that seemed to be plastered all over TV. The old Del boy is trying to sell you something and I appreciate that it’s all been planted in so many people’s minds, but now we have moved forward. 

There are so many amazing products, services, many ways to validate these products and services and the people behind the scenes. 

Why is there still a bad rep around the concept of selling?

Dr Ro: More than anything else it’s mistrust and there can’t be a better word. If I spent an hour online now looking at social media posts, the news there’s so much information and people don’t know what to believe. 

The common conversation in the United Kingdom when we’re recording this podcast is what the hell is going on with the British government at the moment? We’ve been told there’s another lockdown, don’t do this, do this. 

I think people have just completely lost faith you add that on top of everything else going on which at the moment of course is a lot more people selling online, people promoting online. We’ve had a massive surge in online businesses you talked about podcasts going through the roof in the last six months since Covid really kicked in. I think what’s happening is people don’t quite genuinely know now what to believe in. 

In other words, they’re questioning what is being said and what is being said is what is being sold. The minute somebody online is saying you should do it this way, buy this product or you need to do this they’re basically selling somebody an idea and there’s just too much of it. I think people are becoming overwhelmed and they don’t know what to believe in. 

Add to that as we talked about the bad experiences of a hard sales experience, people possibly being sold a product that didn’t deliver what they’re expecting. Pushy salespeople, feeling bullied as you mentioned, cold calls. My mum has had to block phone calls because there’s now a technique especially in the last couple of years. 

I had one the other day this woman she said hi, it’s Amelia here how are you doing as though she’s known me for years.  I said Amelia who? She said, Amelia here, how are you doing? I said Amelia who? She called the name of the company really quickly and I said, what’s the name of the company and she said it’s Amelia here just want to check into see how you’re doing and I’m phoning from this company. I said is this a sales call? She said I just really wanted to catch up with you. I said is this a sales call? 

Finally she said yes. She said I’m phoning to talk about your mobile services and I said, thanks for calling I’ve got a great service. I was very respectful and I said I really appreciate your phone call. I’m sure you’re busy and you’ve got lots of other people to speak to. 

Thanks very much conversation was done in like 20 seconds because she was phoning as though she knew me and this is the problem.

It’s the lack of permission. 

How much information we get from the government without permission. And this is not to be controversial or conspiratorial we’re talking about a philosophy here. 

We’re being bombarded with information as you said being sold stuff without permission. Add to that the approach to the style, the lack of authenticity. 

Then we’ve got the politicians that are saying one thing. I watched a video the other day, which was sent to me by yourself. It was about someone very involved in the presidential campaign and wanted to retain that post and certain things were said and I remember because I haven’t followed it, I said to you is this true? 

You said I’m not convinced it’s true. If somebody is saying something on a video which is so convincing that people believe it and later on people find it is not true, it leaves constant mistrust. 

In answer to what was a simple question mistrust more than anything else.

Harms: I think just re-emphasising what I started with, which was this old image which is hard to shed. That whole stereotypical image of somebody sitting somewhere, cold calling or knocking on your door saying hey would you be interested in buying this product, service? I think fundamentally it’s not to be confused with seeking permission first. If you’re a good businessperson. 

If you’re a good person when it comes to the concept of understanding somebody else’s values and beliefs and I wouldn’t recommend Ro to something I know he’s not going to be interested in. 

That’s breaking the bond that we have when it comes to understanding he will be interested in that let me sell that idea, movie, book to Ro. 

I think fundamentally gain permission once you gain permission then somebody has said to you tell me about your product. 

I think this bad rep has transitioned to my generation, which is so frustrating and that is there’s a lot of sales training which exists where it’s very alpha, very aggressive, very technique and tactic based and that’s done by design. That just reinforces a stereotype of somebody who’s out there and their mission is to sell you anything. 

So people believe that this person is such a good salesperson they could sell me anything, when actually they are so passionate and they believe in their product. But it gets confused when sales trainers say that you have to be the lion in the jungle or you’re going to get eaten. 

These are the kind of phrases they get thrown out and I think there’s a fundamental misalignment here with most people, because most people by nature, most business owners, product created, service providers. Most people selling the movie idea to somebody else by nature are not aggressive; they’re excited, enthusiastic, passionate about their product. But what these trainings do is say switch all of that authenticity off. 

Whereas I know having come through Communicating with Impact you fundamentally teach sales in a completely different way and it’s one of the components within the 38 components that you speak about and sales is one of those elements. 

It doesn’t form the whole thing, but everything that you teach helps compliment sales.

Dr Ro: When you are selling something you are having to communicate that something in the right way, so communication interestingly enough sits underneath everything. You can’t run a business if you can’t communicate effectively, you can’t be in a great relationship if you can’t communicate effectively. 

Yet people don’t put enough value in it until it breaks down. 

A friend of mine is a trader, so he teaches people how to trade the stock market but he was doing a whole session with men and women on money, and money management and relationships with money and he said the single thing that kept coming back up again was the fact that the communication between couples had broken down to a point where that’s where the tension was being created. 

It wasn’t about the money. But it’s the way they communicated around money. He said to me what you’re doing with Communicating with Impact is gold dust but people associate the pain with the communication they associate it with the money, but it’s the poor communication that is causing the problem.

Harms: Just like when I said the opening statistics people think it’s a cash flow challenge, they didn’t have a business plan. Actually, it’s a cash flow challenge because the person can’t sell the product or service. 

Part of the business plan they didn’t consider the sales mechanism is within the business.

It’s where the greatest fear is Harms.

Talking about fear, why are people afraid?

Dr Ro: I think it goes back to what we’ve taught talked about on another podcast as well, which is this basic human need that we all have which is we all have a core desire and need to be loved, to be connected with other human beings. 

This is a human psychology Maslow et cetera that’s it. Being loved equals being liked, being loved for many people means not being rejected and people don’t want to be rejected. It also means having a connection with other people. It means associating good things with you. So when people think about you, they love you for who you are, your style, who you are as a person, how you show up. 

They feel a strong connection with you. You put selling into the mix and selling can create rejection. 

Now if I’m selling something to somebody and I feel rejected or I get objections from them that is the opposite of what I want to feel because I don’t want to feel rejected. I want to feel connected to you as I have a core need to feel loved.

So rejection creates a wedge that moves me further away from that basic human need to be loved. Annoyance some people don’t want to be sold to at that moment in time that annoyance is directed towards me as a person, suddenly that’s a sense of rejection, disconnection. They want to move away from me in a shop. They start to walk away as I walk towards them. They walk away from me. I feel rejected, I feel disconnected. 

All those words are the opposite to the basic need for being loved. So that’s the challenge we’ve got Harms is that people don’t realise that it does really press a really raw button unless we reframe it and if another person doesn’t want something you’re selling to them, then they will basically react with all the signals that a human being reads as being rejected, I equate that to not being loved. 

Which is not the case by the way they’re not rejecting the person they’re possibly rejecting the approach or that moment in time, they’re not ready to be sold to. It may not be the answer people want here, but the truth is it’s down to you why you have a basic fear of selling. It’s not to do with the product or service that you have, that’s my personal view.

Harms: I think that’s the fundamental truth around the concept of selling as you said that isn’t it interesting that those two parallels, the concept of being loved, liked not being rejected versus rejection, annoyance, disconnect is just as applicable to sales as it is just to general life. 

The fact that not everybody does like us, people do reject us when you go on a date and they don’t call you for a second day you’ve been rejected. 

Not everybody connects with us, hence why there are so many people in the world.

Dr Ro: When you went on your first date with Gee, you don’t mind sharing it. Was there any sense of what if she rejects me? Did you have any of these fears? 

Was this in a social environment?

Harms: Our first date was in a pizza shop in West London and I felt everything you said, which is the opposite of being loved. 

I felt all those things at that time through nerves and the concept of I hope I don’ t annoy her. I hope she doesn’t reject me. All those things play out, so it’s no different to if I was selling my products or service versus telling myself it’s just so intertwined with life. It’s almost the same thing. 

I’m looking at these two contrasts and it’s exactly the same thing and the fundamental fact is not everyone’s going to like you or love you.

Dr Ro: When I met my fiancé it was on a beach in Jamaica and there was actually a guy trying to try and make a move on her, a local Jamaican guy. I jumped into the water because it was actually out on a pontoon and I swam underwater to try and bring myself about the water to try and catch a point where I was able to talk to her if this guy had left. 

But I didn’t know that I’m literally under the water, no goggles on. I can see him walk away and she’s still there ,so I thought okay, I’ve got to go for it. At that point there I didn’t really have a lot of time to think about rejection. 

If I’m really honest because I’m underwater I’ve got to breathe man. I was like actually breathing is right now more important than getting rejected and I positioned myself and again, sales is a little bit about this. Putting yourself in a position where you have the opportunity to share yourself or your product or service. I swam and I literally came up with about a metre where she was, she turned round a bit startled and I’m in man. 

Even at that point there yes, I was in an interesting period of my life and I was going through a lot of changes at that time and I decided in an instant as we started the conversation I was just going to be myself. I didn’t hold back in what I told her about who I was, where I was at this point in my life, and the difference in our ages as well. She was in a different period in her life and we sat for three hours on that beach and I talked about the challenges that I’d been through separation etcetera and all these things because I thought if I’m straight with this person that I really liked and felt a strong connection with, if she doesn’t feel that connection with that level of authenticity then frankly she’s probably not the right person for me and I’m not the right person for her. 

It’s a very honest reflection of how that relationship grew because it was just me being completely authentic. For anyone single it’s genuinely refreshing to sit there and just say what you feel because that way you don’t have to pretend. 

You’re selling yourself, but without selling you’re just being yourself.

Harms: Most people and whether it’s selling a product, whether you’re selling somebody on hanging out on the beach with you, a date. For me we did a pizza shop as a first date. 

All those transitions 99% of people mask themselves with these tools, sales tactics, techniques, scripts, things to say, things they think they should say because they’ve been taught a certain way. 

But what we’re saying is strip all that back because the ultimate sales person is you when you are authentic and I think that’s the message that I’m taking away from what you just described.

Dr Ro: Doesn’t matter if you’re 22, 23, 25, 30 millennium category or you’re my age group. I’ve coached people in their 50s and 60s and they haven’t dated for years and that’s because their self-worth, self-belief, they couldn’t sell themselves, they didn’t feel they were worth. 

This is why for me it’s such a passionate subject. If you said to me give me a statement that helps reframe this resistance to rejection what people afraid of think of it as is this, you’ve got to change your perception to look at this in a really healthy way.

Think of yourself as an authentic salesperson then anything you communicate whether it’s Harms talking about online business or a about his beautiful baby, or Dr Ro talking about a communication product or my kids. I’m going to be the same person. I don’t need to be a different person in selling a product talking about my family in the sense that my core values are the same. 

You don’t have to make this complicated, you just have to make it real.

Harms: Let’s define the key qualities of what makes and anchor it back to what we’ve spoken about is what makes an authentic salesperson.

Dr Ro: Do understand the difference between what we’re talking about here as opposed to sales tactics and sales techniques. 

Now that could actually warrant a separate podcast. If you’re thinking are they going to share some specific sales techniques? No, because that’s not really the issue here. 

We know some great coaches and mentors who in the past where I’ve asked to do a video or record something for us or for me to either promote or encourage etcetera, or just talk about themselves and they find it difficult to do. Not that they’re not  great at what they do; it’s just knowing how to communicate that in such a way that they’re selling themselves. 

The tactics are one thing, but what happens is when some people have done videos and done recordings and I watched it I’ve gone back to them and said don’t do it that way. You are trying to be somebody else. 

There are a couple of NLP trainers out there that teach people very mechanical, very process driven techniques and I know people who have been to those trainers and watched those trainings and then afterwards you can immediately spot because their style changes. Instead of being authentic now they are kind of a clone of this other style of selling and it doesn’t work and it’s not to be disrespectful to the person, we’re talking about the technique they are using. 

I do want to make sure that before I answer your question that people realise that the tactics and the techniques only work if you start from this authentic place.

Harms: I think that’s the foundation and I think that’s a core message. We’re not saying tools and tactics are a bad thing, they are a fantastic thing but used in the right way and aligned with you. Your authentic self, your true self rather than acting in a completely different way and actually what you find if you follow that path is that you don’t really sell much. 

It deters away from yourself; you feel bad about selling the other person and it doesn’t really connect with you. Instead, they go to somebody else who I personally think, Ro, the person who is authentic but has the tools and tactics has less chance long term making great sales versus somebody who is authentic and has no tactics and techniques, but they’re selling from their core.

Dr Ro: There could be a counter argument to say surely, they may make some conversions. 

Yes, but now that person that’s not authentic has to increase the volume to get the same number of sales. 

That person might have to seat 200 people to convert 20 whereas the authentic person may only need to see 50 to convert 20 because they’re being authentic in their nature. Note it affects your business. 

How much money you put into the marketing and everyone is going my gosh we’re marketing so well ,why aren’t we converting? Look at your salesperson, they are a robot they’re trying to be somebody they’re not. You put somebody else in there who is authentic we’re converting more here. We don’t have to market as much. It does affect the business in so many different ways.

 If you’re thinking what do you mean by tactics and strategies. Okay, so sales tactics or strategies, how do you deal with the rejection? How do you deal with objections? How do you position somebody that has a concern about the product price? How do you position somebody who has got a concern about the delivery time on your product? How do you deal with somebody that’s read negative stuff about your product online? 

How do you deal with a couple where there’s a conflict between the husband and the wife, one of them wants to buy the product, the other one doesn’t? This is not about authenticity now it is because you’ve got to be authentic in how you handle it, but now we’re talking about sales techniques. 

So that’s a whole different subject altogether. Number one is being a great communicator above everything else just be a great communicator. 

Authenticity is about being sincere. 

Be sincere if you can’t help a customer, but equally be sincere about what it does and doesn’t do your product. Be passionate. I think you cannot do anything in this business of sales and sell well if you’re not passionate or authentically passionate. 

There is a great phrase by Richard Wilkins many years ago I shared the same stage with him and he says enthusiasm does to people what it does to hot air balloons. 

In other words, you’re pumping that person with this beautiful enthusiasm and now they’re passionate and enthusiastic about everything that you are enthusiastic about which is buying the product or service you’re offering. Have a good intent, have a pure intent, make your objective here something that is such that you are giving something of value. 

You’re helping other people, they can walk away from it and benefit, their family is going to benefit and at the same time you also know that you are going to benefit because you’re making a sale. Desire to help other people, I’m just putting some of the authentic ways I think are characteristics of an authentic person. Have a desire to help other people know that what you’re doing is going to serve them. 

We did an interview with Kyle on building businesses online, but during lockdown Harms and Kyle did 40 shows.

Harms: We did 40 lunchtime shows and the purpose was to help other people in this crazy time. 

One of the cool things that we released is a list of over 200 different ways to make money from home and all you need is WiFi connection, a laptop and a very low learning capacity and you can start making money immediately. That was why Kyle came onto the show to share.

Dr Ro: It was brilliant as they were free shows, they were giving value, helping people. They did have a workshop that was available but the most important thing is they were there to help people and that is the] authenticity of their message. 

You’ve got to know that you own the value and you own that product you’ve got to know what that product is and own it. Don’t just sell it to somebody. 

An authentic person is comfortable with making profit from providing a great service. 

I think that’s probably one of the biggest blocks for people in their selling. They might even be passionate, sincere and they may have a great intent about providing a service, but if in their core they are uncomfortable with making profit from making a sale that’s not being authentic. 

You have put the work in so authentically say this is the price and if they say can I get a massive discount when you discount that product so much it goes so low you end up in a situation where you’ve not valued yourself.

Harms: Sometimes people think profit in terms of a specific product, but something worth noting here is if you are selling something educational, informational, something based on your own expertise you should price it in a way and sell it with pride because you’ve got 10 20, 30, 40 years of experience in this specific area and that’s what people are paying for. 

It’s really important to remember that they can’t replicate that 30, 40 years’ experience. Ro has over 30 years work experience on the topic of sales, so this podcast is free but if Ro ever had a sales programme then that’s what you are paying for. 

When you wonder why somethings are priced a certain way always factor in like Dentists had a humongous education. 

We have to understand that they spent seven years in education and the experience.

Dr Ro: The cost is what you pay and you’re paying for something the value is what we receive. I had a dentist appointment yesterday and I was there for half an hour and it was £280. 

But what she did, talk to me about and everything else I don’t have that skill, I don’t want to spend] X number of years going off to learn that.

Authenticity includes persistence and being diligent and it’s being prepared as well. As somebody selling yourself and selling products and services your authenticity is about being prepared. It is like someone asking me a question about something in my product range. If I’m not prepared for it I’ve got one or two choices. 

I can be sincere and say that’s a great question. I don’t know the answer to that or I then go into an inauthentic manner and I lie or I just say it does this, it does that, now I’m selling on hot air. I’m not selling the truth and that’s not a good thing. Being authentic is about being prepared as well.

That’s my personal perspective on what are the great qualities of an authentic person.

Harms:  From myself it is just reminding listeners of what I said at the start, which is authenticity is at the core these are great traits that Ro has observed in authentic people promoting, encouraging people, educating people on their business from an honest place. 

I think fundamentally it’s what we discussed in the last episode you’ve got to be yourself, you as true and as real as possible and that is going to tenfold, make that process of this part of your business such an enjoyable process. 

I think one of things that’s unenjoyable is having to be somebody else or do something that makes you uncomfortable and fundamentally doing something that makes you uncomfortable is not being yourself.

Just be yourself and you will achieve the sale. 

What are some fundamental things from your experience Ro that people can do about this because this is a big subject and we’ve covered lots of different areas within sales?

Dr Ro: The podcast itself I believe will help certain people who are sitting on the fence or worried about this have got a completely different way of looking at it. It is a frame, so sentences, words, examples whatever it is we’ve given attach it to your own meanings and beliefs and use it in the right way. 

I was hoping out today that people have a different understanding of what is to sell and to not see it in a way that they should feel resistance to, but something they could embrace in a positive way and I believe we’ve done that.

Let me go through seven different things. 

The first one has to be your self-worth and that means really get to understand who you are and what your beliefs are. To do that I’m going to suggest the great interview with Siobhan Birmingham, which addressed the subject.

 If you don’t have a sense of your own worth you’re going to really struggle to sell the worth of anything that you are selling that comes to number two, which is knowing your value. What is it you are bringing to the table as a human being. When I say your self-worth, that’s who you are as a person, your beliefs, your vision, your purpose. 

Take 15 minutes to write down 10of the most amazing things that you bring to the world. How do you make the world a better place? 

How do you help other people become better?

Harms: Why this particular step is critical is it’s the difference between why somebody can charge £10,000 for their service versus somebody who has to charge £100 for the same service there’s a fundamental difference.

Dr Ro: Number three is the value of your product and service you’ve got to know it.

So that whatever you’re taking to the world it stands out clearly from everything else out there. If you’re in a world where there’s a lot of other services that are similar, be clear on what it is and know what value it brings to your customers, that’s different to what your value is and what yourself worth. 

We’re now talking about your product.

Number four is to capture why what you have to sell is great for your customers. 

Why is your product great for other people? Start to describe it. Don’t just say it in your head but take two or three pages if you have to type it up, transcribe whatever, but why is this product great for people just in your own words?

This is where some Communicating with Impact comes in because you have an internal dialogue that’s telling you why it’s brilliant, you’ve spent two years developing it or maybe it’s nothing you’ve developed but you researched these products and you want to take that to the field. 

You’ve got to start to capture why people should buy your product. 

This is not a specific detail right now. It’s more of a general amazing type description.

Harms: If you created a certain product, why did you create it for yourself in the first place? 

Often people create things to solve their own problem.

If you struggle to talk about the customer first, answer your own questions and then go into the world of the customer.

Dr Ro: Number five is understanding your products from a benefits and features perspective. So this is now about what the feature is, the dimensions, the weight, what it does and then the benefits are how it helps the customer. 

Number four is the bigger picture now we’re drilling down into it weighs this much and because it’s so light you can carry it in your pocket, which means you don’t have holes in your pocket. And the customer goes, yeah that’s right now you’re explaining the benefits to them. 

Number six practice on a small scale authentically and with passion, explaining four and five. Start talking to people doesn’t have to be a big hard sell. If we talk about you on a [01:31:00] personal level, it’s the same thing. 

Then obviously start to describe it and practice. That’s the key thing not having it is not enough you’ve got to articulate it out. 

Number seven is to start to practice communicating with impact and learn to do this. I think one of the first places we talked about is take the test, you can also go and watch about an hours’ worth of free online presentation which takes people through the Communicating with Impact process and there’s even an online program and there’s even a live event that people come to. 

I think start at the basics but learn to communicate with impact because if you’ve got the passion and enthusiasm and you know your features and the benefits and you love this product and service, let’s refine the skill of articulating that to people in such a way they go wow. 

That’s the final missing link, it’s how you articulate it.

You don’t have to do it in the aggressive way that is sometimes taught. My opinion is there’s got to be a more authentic way to do it.

If I look back, I feel privileged as I’ve worked with electricians, parents who have made millions of pounds. I’ve taught people who have come out of the city that weren’t in the business of sales that have gone on to become speakers and generated millions of pounds worth of sales. 

There are so many different backgrounds you can come from for this, you don’t have to be cut from a certain cloth. 

It’s an amazing skill to develop, it doesn’t have to be on that level but if you’ve got something sincerely great for the world let’s sell it.

Harms: That’s myself and Ro signing out we shall see you on the next episode.


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