Episode 035 – Personal development in real life, building a Network Marketing business as a mum, defining success, making goals a reality, enjoying the process and more – with Sarah Dunning

Harms: Hello and welcome to another episode of the Seekardo podcast, we are at a time of extreme change that is for certain, and that’s what we know for sure. It is also a time when, as an individual or as individuals, we can easily sit back and just hope, fingers crossed that something will happen in our favour. 

Something will happen for us by chance whereas our guest today made a conscious choice to do the opposite of that and create an incredibly successful business. 

As you know, our philosophy here at the Seekardo podcast has always been to look at great leaders and inspirational people and draw on their qualities and characteristics. By modelling these characteristics as individuals, we can emulate the same characteristics in our own lives, no matter the circumstance and no matter how extreme the change is required of us. It is our sincere hope that by listening to today’s episode, especially if you are a woman, a female, a mother or know a female who feels like right now is a challenging time, which they just can’t see past. 

Then our guest today will without a doubt inspire you to look beyond the now. The guest that we have today is going to incredibly inspire you, motivate you and almost give you a roadmap. My gut feeling is they’re going to give you a roadmap to success and also how to approach success and that’s my gut feeling, because I’m aware of the amazing things that our guest has done. Whilst this is top of mind if you love episodes like this myself, Ro and the amazing guests that join us are producing, developing, editing for your listening, your learning and your inspiration then please head to growthtribes.com and become a supporter of the podcast. 

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Dr Ro: First of all all thanks for joining us on the Seekardo podcast. 

I am super pumped because the guest that we’ve got on today gosh Sarah I think I’ve known you for six, seven, eight years. We have Sarah Dunning, who is an amazing human being. Sarah grew up in Yorkshire, she’s got an amazing accent. I spent nearly 10 years in Yorkshire, so it’s nice to hear a Yorkshire accent on here today, Sarah. 

She trained as a professional dancer and in fact, when my daughter was around three or four, I was asking her on some tips on this, she worked in musicals for several years before an injury brought an end to that career in 2008. 

At a crossroads, not knowing what to do next and by chance she was introduced to an opportunity in network marketing, and she knew nothing about and if you’re listening to this many of you may have come across this before and often when we come across something new the easiest thing to do is say I don’t know anything about that and walk away. That was not the case for Sarah, she made a decision to look into it. It ended up changing completely the trajectory of her life. 

I meet people wherever I go that seem to know who Sarah Dunning is. She is a proud mum of three children and has a fiancée Kevin. I’ll describe from my perspective. If you’re pulled up to a traffic light and you’re sitting there and on one side of you is a dragster car with all the bells and whistles, pumping out huge amounts of sound, it’s revving up and the lights are about to go green. 

On the right-hand side you’ve got the slick looking car that seems pretty understated like my Tesla and it looks amazing, but nothing flashy in its appearance and the light goes green all of a sudden, out the right-hand side of your eyes you see the understated car disappear into the background. Meanwhile that big, flashy, revved up dragster car is still pumping out smoke and trying to catch up. 

Sarah is in the car on the right. 

She is so understated and yet incredibly successful as a woman; hopefully, you don’t mind me describing you as a car. Words that come to mind when I think of Sarah she has got an immense amount of humility. And yet, in my mind and bear in mind I’ve stood on stage with some successful people in the industry of public speaking and in front of large audiences. Sarah is right up there as one of the most successful network marketers in the world, and yet she lives this incredibly balanced life. 

She is humble by nature; she has all these great qualities and you only see them if you get close to her, but we brought her close to you today on this podcast. She’s given up time away from her kids, fiancé, and her business to be here today. Sarah Dunning it’s an absolute pleasure to have you join us. Thank you.

 Sarah: Ro thank you so much that was really kind.

Dr Ro: I know you well Harms has heard about you many times over the years and your names come up in conversation. Sarah and I met through the industry I’m in. She’s an avid learner, so I was actually speaking at an event she was at the event, taking notes, I was teaching on the subject of real estate. 

As a successful entrepreneur and business woman she also, I think realised that it’s important to diversify. So, there’s an audience of 60 or 70 people in the room. She’s there with smoke coming off her paper and this is very successful already, and even when we were there people were making excuses why they couldn’t get into property. Sarah was saying to them listen if you walk out of here you’ll never do this. 

Do you remember that?

Sarah: I remember that.

Dr Ro: I’ve been privileged to go and speak at some of the conferences and events linked to her network marketing business which has been a pleasure as well. 

A lot of people don’t necessarily know Sarah and her story would you mind opening up a little bit to us here and starting by taking us back in time, tell us about your journey that has brought you to this point.

Sarah: I was an official dancer, so I trained for several years to work in that industry and it really started when I was eight years old. I went to Bradford Lamborough, I watched Cats the musical and I was all in. Knew what I wanted to be from that very moment I wanted to be in the profession of musical theatre, be a dancer and that’s what I became obsessed with for a very long time. 

Until I was in a musical called We will rock you and I was head banging on stage and ruptured two discs in my neck that was the end of my career. It stopped in that moment, and now I was employed which meant my income stopped in that moment. I moved back in 2008 to London. I was in a beer garden in Chiswick talking to a friend just saying I don’t know what I’m going to do with my life. I am a complete crossroads. 

I was really clear on what I didn’t want to do, I didn’t want to sit in an office. I knew I didn’t want to do the standard 9-to-5 job. But I really didn’t know what it looked like to me because all I’d ever known was dance.

Dr Ro: Two questions in my mind. 

One is what was the journey in your youth. Did you come from a successful entrepreneurial background to start with? 

Were your parents like already hugely successful and they just imparted this mindset to you?

Or your classic Yorkshire family just worked very hard with great qualities and great values.

Sarah: Definitely the second. Yorkshire family working class. 

They taught me great lessons of basic work ethic, even though my parents now are always working, they never stop; they’ve got that work ethic in them now in their retirement. They taught me these values of integrity, and my dad is my biggest role model. 

I always say it’s like he has read hundreds of books but has never picked up one personal development book but leads with seeing the best of the people and always living by your truth and doing what you should be doing even though no one is watching.

Dr Ro: Sounds like he has an old soul. Did that play out into your dance career? 

Would you say that’s what helped you in that early stage of that level of discipline.

Sarah: Yeah totally. 

Success in business and reflection is so parallel with being a professional dancer. You do have to have that level of discipline and you don’t have a boss, someone telling you to be there at nine and do something. It’s all completely self-motivated. 

You have to get to a dance class to keep yourself fit and in shape and at the top of your game as the reality is I knew when I was in that room I had to be in the top 10% of that room. I had to be the best because if I wasn’t in that room there was no chance in the big scary outside in the professional world. I’ve always had to get in the top 10% I have to do what others aren’t willing to do. I don’t want to be mediocre; I want to choose options making me way more than average and in that top 10%.

Dr Ro: I think that’s a great quality and knowing you that’s not to do with ego it’s just about knowing that in order to get that level of success you have to put yourself in that percentage.

Sarah: Yeah it is totally not about ego. 

I think it’s just easy to see in front of you day-to-day when you look at others and you just think the average person isn’t willing to do it. So if you see that around you just choose to do that little bit more, it is a slight edge.

I was 27 when I had my injury.

Dr Ro: Harms that’s our millennial listener.

Harms: Fascinatingly that was my big turning point when I was about 25 to 27, and I shifted over to real estate because I also did not like the idea having worked in it, a 9-to-5. That is fascinating in terms of age point.

Sarah: Yeah, totally. I think you start to change the way you think, I did in my late 20s. you start to think a bit further beyond tomorrow.

At that point I didn’t own a house and to me, that was something I really wanted to achieve and I was thinking how am I ever going to be able to save a deposit, how am I going to get on the property ladder. 

I just couldn’t see what the answer to that was at that time and I knew it wasn’t what everyone else was doing as that wasn’t working either for a lot of people.

Dr Ro: What happened next in Chiswick at that point?

Sarah: My friend I used to go to dance college with said he just heard about this company that just launched in the UK. It sounded brilliant, the opportunity sounded great and I was just so open to opportunity. 

I think I have always been relatively open to things and I am an avid learner. I’m so open to constantly learning and wanting to know more and become better and be the best version of myself. I was always open to hearing anything that people had to offer and I think I trusted myself as well. I think you can be open when you trust yourself to know that I’ll be confident enough to say no if it’s not for me, and I often find that sometimes people are a bit hesitant to hear more or be open, or don’t necessarily trust that they’ll make the right choice themselves.

I thought I’ll hear this and I’ll know if it’s for me or not.

In the industry I’m in network marketing, you often see that and it’s such a shame because I really understand what it is. I just thought I’m going to see what this is all about. I went to meet someone who was a stranger at the time, complete stranger and now is a dear friend and he explained to me all about the opportunity, the company that I am still with today 12 years on and I can only describe it as it made complete sense. It was one of those moments where from the moment I heard it I thought this is what I’m born to do. 

This is my destiny.

Dr Ro: That’s lovely that word as well because it is that inner voice. It is beyond your head. Like a soul feeling.

Sarah: It really is yeah. From that moment I was so full of hope and excitement and possibilities about what this could become for me and actually then looking back to that summer 2008, I had no idea what it would become. 

It has become so much more than I initially thought it would be. I was just so excited for a new challenge to learn something new to become more and that’s where it all began really.

Dr Ro: From your perspective was it a case of just picking up books, audios, listening to people, modelling people, what took you from a dancer with a damaged neck to one of the most successful network marketers in the world? 

What was the process going through your head?

Sarah: Not only damaged neck but damaged self-esteem as well.

Dr Ro: Very good point.

Sarah: Being in that industry as a performer most people might go from one job or change their job every year or two years, as a performer several times a day you’re going into a situation where someone is telling you you’re not good enough or you need to do more of something or you don’t look right and that is constant. It’s tough on them and on your self-worth and self-esteem. 

So at that point, I didn’t realise at the time, but I really was rock bottom, low self-worth really as a person. I’m an introvert by nature. I was painfully shy as a child and I’d just found something I loved in dance so I did that. People often say to me you used to dance on stages. It must be easy for you to be able to speak on stage. 

I honestly can say I couldn’t think of anything worse. If someone told me when I started my business I’d have to speak on stage in front of 20,000 people, which we do at our annual conference I would have avoided it at all costs because for me that’s just the most terrifying thing so I had a long way to go. I also realised that and I was very aware of it I had a heightened awareness. 

As I watched the people around me that were having success I could see what I was missing that they have.

Dr Ro: For our listeners that may not be aware of what it looks like, what were some of the characteristics of low self-worth?

Sarah: For me when I used to go out to dinner even with friends and close people I knew I would be the quiet one just listening. 

I didn’t feel confident enough to say my opinion. I just used to be a people pleaser; I’d agree with what everyone was saying. I was highly apologetic, for no reason. I’d find myself saying I’m sorry about that. And sometimes I’d think I don’t why I said sorry there. What happened in that first year as I started my business I was awful. The first year I had zero results. I did 154 presentations and had 154 no’s and that was travelling to people, not the days of Zoom. 

But I just kept going because what I was doing alongside that was I discovered the world of personal development and this is probably what I’m most grateful for. 

I picked up a book the first time in that arena at 27 and I just remember reading it with my jaw almost on the floor just thinking how have I never come across this? I’m 27 years old. There were three books that significantly made an impact. I really remember Rich dad Poor dad, the slight edge by Jeff Olson and the main one I advise people and as a teacher in dance. I became a dance teacher alongside building a business. 

I used to teach on the success principles. 

I had a free session on Friday afternoon and the head of department said what do you want to teach and I said this book. I want to go through these principles with the students because if I’d known this at 18 it would have been a game changer for me.

Harms: If somebody’s listening who is my age and thinks okay building a successful business in network marketing or real estate. 

Whatever your business is, put yourself into Sarah’s shoes in 2008, when we are also facing a global recession. Plus the fact that she’s got an injury. Self-esteem is low. She is building a business alongside also working. 

It should also be inspiring you that it wasn’t a free year for Sarah, she had to go work on it. Make sure the bills are paid, make sure the income is coming in whilst building a business alongside is that fair to say it was a dual attack on your dreams as such.

Sarah: Yes totally, that’s exactly it. 

I worked so hard in the three years and I was working full-time and I’d get up at five and do an hour of power. Get ready to go to school, leave at seven I’d be in the school from seven in the morning till seven at night. It was a secondary school that I did free classes and post classes and things for the students afterwards. Then I’d go straight from the school in South Croydon to start work on my business every single night. 

I’d get in at midnight, get the last tube back, go straight to bed and get up at five again the next morning. So for three years I lived on five years of sleep. 

I’m not saying that is a good thing on a reflection but I was just buzzing on life. I was loving everything about. I loved teaching, the students, I loved helping them and building my business. I was in that phase where I don’t need sleep but I obviously did.

I’ve lived this journey so I can relate to it but there was a point where it went from the low self-esteem to this is going to happen, you just didn’t know what it was going to happen, but you just knew with enough persistence, something was going to give. 

Dr Ro:  Did it feel like that?

Sarah:  Yes totally. 

I knew that from the first moment I heard the opportunity and that was based on the hundreds of people that had done it. I started to listen to them, I listened to audios. I listened to them train, and as much as I learned so much and had so much respect and I just thought they’re not superhuman aliens, they’re just normal people that have worked hard, persisted, been relentless. 

I knew I was confident I had those qualities so I thought I know I can do it. There’s no doubt that I could do it. There was a lot of work to be done to get there and I wasn’t afraid of that.

Harms: What if somebody approaches you whether they’re my age or Ro’s generation and they say to you I don’t feel like I have those characteristics built in. 

What would you say to them?

Sarah: You can learn them. 

When you’re a baby and your parents look at you they don’t think she’s not got the work ethic, looks like she’s never going to have that determination. That’s not the case. Tony Robbins says you have a belief you put up a pillar, someone else mentions something and before it’s a paradigm that you believe to be a fact and it isn’t. it’s just knowing that you’ve got the power to change all of that if you want it badly enough. 

I had a lot of paradigms myself I had to shift and change. But as I read more I understood that it was completely possible to change those paradigms to serve me as opposed to hold me back and limit me.

Dr Ro: It’s like you’re rewriting the script. 

The new chapter is a blank page you’re redefining it with a new set of beliefs. The other thing is as well and Sarah’s description I can relate to in many ways across the businesses I’ve done. 

A lot of people today look at people in our generation and say I couldn’t do those hours, I couldn’t drive those miles but we were saying technology today has brought us together. So instead of a two- or three-hour drive to a meeting to meet with an investor or a potential person of your business that is now compressed into a zoom call so we can be more efficient and still maintain our normal lives as well.

Sarah: Yeah 100%. 

There are other challenges that come with that. I say all the time to my teams at the moment people that are going to have the most success in the next couple years are the people that have developed that superpower of focus. As we do live in this world of multiple distractions and you’ve really got to practice and nail it.

Dr Ro: That’s so true. It’s a subject that people don’t realise they get busy and busy is not being focused.

Sarah: You need a plan and stick to it, and it’s practical tips like a great thing to do is set names of alarms. You can call your alarm titles so you’ve got this task for half an hour and your alarm goes off and you go to the next task. You’re really staying on point with what you are planning to do that day and don’t pick the phone up. 

In your miracle morning in that hour that you have to yourself just practice.

Harms: What happened after those three years?

Sarah: I’d got to the point in a business where there’s no need to be working a full-time job but I loved it. So at the time actually the school was struggling for funding and I really wanted to work there and this is an example of choice, once you get to the point where you’ve got an income that is not attached to time, I was able to choose to volunteer at the school. 

I still did the job I just didn’t get paid as I had the income from my business. However there were some classes that I didn’t enjoy. 

This is the power of choice. I said I’ll come back but I’m not doing that. That to me is a great example of choice that you want to be able to live your life how you choose, how you want to spend it and who you want to spend time with. Then six months later, I relocated back to Leeds and then when I started property.

Dr Ro: You’ve been on stages all over the world, you’ve travelled to some those beautiful locations, lifestyles changed. 

Being a mum was a massive part of this process for you? 

Was it a conscious decision? 

Were you a mum when I first met you?

Sarah: No, I was single and living in London. 

What happened was, this is the lesson I just became so fully enthralled, I loved what I was doing and when you love what you’re doing it’s easy to do it 24/7. My close friends started to build the business with me, all my real close friends have the same business as me. It became completely our lifestyle. Everything we did. 

We travelled together and it was amazing but I got to the point where I was 35 and thinking I’ve got nothing else outside of this because I’ve been obsessed with it for eight years. I made a conscious decision thinking where am I headed? 

Where do I want to be in the next five years, do I want a family? 

As a female you have to think about things like that at 35. I made a conscious decision to step back in some ways from the business but just shift the focus to get my social life, chill out a little bit, get more balance. I suppose that I really intentionally had to do it. I have two stepchildren and a little girl.

Harms:  Having achieved that the public perception would call success in the traditional sense. 

The question is what is success to Sarah Dunning?

Sarah: I love that question because it is so different from 2008 when I started my business I was driven by different things to live a certain lifestyle and I got excited about the choices and the freedom and recognition and just achievement. 

Today 12 years on what I have learnt to realise is success to me today is and what I’m still always striving for and I’m getting a lot better, is just be present in the moment. That to me is ultimate success. 

Being able to enjoy the now not thinking about the past and not thinking what’s coming in the future. Still having a goal but being here now. Happiness is just here and now. My favourite book is A New Earth. I’m on my fourth time doing it. 

There’s a section at the end and this is just so perfect for what it describes. He talks about three modalities that you want to be in to have that presence and he says there’s acceptance. Acceptance is a peaceful energy and peaceful state. And if you can get into that state of acceptance you’re in a good vibration, peaceful energy. 

There’s joy where you find joy in the small things and doing the day-to-day activity that you know you need to do to make your business work. Then there’s enthusiasm and enthusiasm comes when you’ve got a goal, so the joy of doing it but also an end destination of the goal that you’re working for to achieve that brings enthusiasm. 

That’s brilliant and where I want to be. 

But what happens is if the goal and this was a lightbulb moment for me. If the goal becomes more important than the day-to-day doing the action, you become stressed and that’s when the whole energy changes and you don’t manifest and create what you want to bring into your life as the frequency is not good. It’s frustration, resentment but you really want the goal so that was a huge thing to me and I think that happens to a lot of people in our industry. 

You’re so driven to achieve a title or a goal or a position, you’re more focused on that than actually the day-to-day doing of it should be the joy and you are excited about the goal. 

But if the goal becomes bigger than what you’re doing day-to-day it all becomes irrelevant.

Dr Ro: Even just in what you said there, there’s so much that translates across most people’s lives. I think particularly now I think what Covid has done globally, particularly those people in the Western world where they’re in a position to have opportunities in front of them. I start looking frantically for other things.

 And so, being busy is almost a way of life at the moment people are trying to find an alternative solution just in case this happens, so you’re right. There is almost a sense of I can’t be in the moment right now. I understand that stuff, I’ll sort it out when I’m successful I’ll then live in the moment, but I’ve got to do it now. 

You can’t even be in the moment as you’re thinking about what is going to happen next.

Sarah: It is the key to master in life. 

Having been in place for such a long time and I realised that all you only have is just now.

Dr Ro: The obvious question to somebody listening is how do I do that? 

I’m a busy person. I’ve got a couple kids, a business. I’ve read all the stuff I understand about being the moment but how do I really get in the moment? 

What would be for you one of the things you found being a mum, being a partner and also an entrepreneur of a global business what would be one or two things that you found on a practical level to bring you back to centre to reset your compass in that moment?

Sarah: Definitely meditation it’s essential for anyone living in today’s world. 

It’s important to find that time for yourself and to connect to your beliefs, it’s just something bigger than you. It gives your perspective, you know that, ultimately, it doesn’t really matter when something small happens that can send you off centre. just pause for a minute and consciously think.

Dr Ro: Some people think you have to find a completely tranquil spot and it has to be for an hour, but for me, I can even find meditation in a five-minute moment just stilling myself so it doesn’t have to be a full on one- or two-hour process.

Sarah: I think comes in different ways for different people. 

I now realise, looking back to when I used to dance I was just in a constant state of meditation because you’re so present in the moment connected to what you’re doing and there are no thoughts going on in your head. 

Just something you enjoy doing, ultimately there is not that internal chatter and dialogue going on. That was one of my key moments in self-discovery when I started my business. 

I remember going into a training and someone saying you’ve got this internal voice talking to you all the time. I have a clear memory sitting there thinking I don’t have that voice in my head.

A few days later I was sorting out washing and suddenly heard myself say something and I was like that’s the voice, that voice is constantly there. 

As soon as I picked up on that it was the game changer. I suddenly became aware of everything I was saying to myself that was critical and destructive and I actively changed it. 

Meditation gets you to that place of being aware of that voice and quiets it down.

Harms: I did a ten-day silent, locked away from the world, but all you have to do is sit there for less than five minutes and that internal voice will arise. 

It will show itself, if you are in doubt, just try it and that internal voice is keeping you away from the success and building things like Sarah has built. 

Just be conscious of that I think.

Dr Ro: I’ve seen it like a hurdle. If you’re trying to get from A to B that voice is a little hurdles. Imagine clearing those out the way and just allowing yourself to go down that path, with no barriers. 

Eckhart Tolle is great, I remember listening to his audio which I think was on a tape called the power now and I remember sitting there listening because he speaks like this deliberately as well to allow you to be in that place, to be in that moment.

Harms: I remember listening thinking I have no time for this. I took the wrong approach. When I listened to it, I pressed the listen in speed.

I just missed the point.

Dr Ro:  Going back to the question on what is success do you want to add to that or for you is that the most important thing?

Also living with purpose.

People come to me and say I can’t find my purpose and I usually say you shouldn’t be looking for your purpose. You have to live a certain way and it will come to you; it will reveal itself to you. Some people like yourself have a very clear purpose but for someone it could be just a purpose for that day. Give today a sense of purpose. 

Do you do it on a big scale, small scale how do you position your purpose into your daily life?

Sarah: To me it’s contributing or helping people for me through the business. I know I can help people get from where they are to where they want to be if they’re willing to bring the energy and commitment. 

That’s what I know my purpose is.

Dr Ro: There’s a really deep sense of knowing. 

I know there’s that quote on quote the shy introvert from Yorkshire, but actually underneath the hood there’s this incredible powerhouse of certainty. 

There’s a knowing inside you, would you agree?

Sarah: Yeah I do think that comes from over the years establishing I like myself.

Dr Ro: That is a huge learning. 

I think love actually is a stronger word, which I think we all have to be mindful of because we live in such a world that that sense of love is often reflected by how I look, how I appear in a photograph on Facebook, as opposed to something deeper than that. Daily purpose being in the moment for you. 

More than anything else, it gives you that sense of centredness. 

Again, I want to pick up a little bit more for the people rushing hard, they want to get the success now do you believe that they can still maintain that power for now while still striving at the same time?

Sarah: Yeah totally it is just summarising that section just find the joy in the doing. 

Be aware of yourself in a state of frustration and disappointment or anger when you’re doing the day-to-day to and if you are then stop and pause. How can you find joy in the doing? As it’s absolutely amazing. 

It is great to have a goal that’s what brings enthusiasm but it all becomes pointless if you’re just doing it in the wrong state.

Dr Ro: Bearing in mind how far you’ve come in a short space of time, you’ve probably done what most people would have done in two, three lifetimes of business. What are the biggest lessons that you, as Sarah Dunning learnt whilst building a business and I think because we’ve got a mum online, we’ve got a woman who built a successful business and I think a lot of people are afraid to talk into the space because of the whole gender thing. 

I do think it’s important for you to talk as a woman to our lady listeners as well. 

Sarah: I think the word that comes to everyone’s mind is guilt. It’s learning to get really clear on what you intend to do each day and then once you’ve done that switch off and it’s important for that reason, to map out what you need to do and what you need to fulfil. 

Then once you have done that leave your phone in your office and be completely present with the kids and be wherever you are. Don’t feel guilty about it and let go of that guilt and think I have done what I needed to do for my business today, now I’m present here. 

It’s mapping out your weeks and planning when you’re going to spend time doing what and focusing that time.

Dr Ro: This ties back to purpose. 

Once you’re clear on the purpose you work in your plan into that purpose, of which your children if you’re a single mom or dad that has to be in there.

Sarah: Definitely. 

For me I have had lots of thoughts having children and the way I build my business and I’ve come to the realisation what’s really important to me is that my children see what I’ve done to create the life we’ve got today. 

I really want to teach them why we’re so grateful, and I’m fortunate to learn from my parents, which is work ethic. I want them to see me working to know that I have to make some sacrifices and it’s not always going to be that we can do everything when we want to do it. 

Our life and being able to spend lots of time together comes from the times when I do have to work and when I’m in my office and the door is shut the kids know I’m working. And when I’m with them I don’t have my phone.

Harms: That solves the guilt on both sides, guilt when you’re away from the business and also guilt when you’re away from the kids. Because anchoring to what you’ve talked to us so far, which is your present and you’re in the now, when you are with the children or when you are with the business or with friends and that’s a big takeaway. 

I think people of my generation need to be hearing that message.

Sarah: I think that’s the challenge for your generations of the distraction thing and you’ve got access to do everything on your phone every single minute of the day. I think the best thing to do is put the phone away from you in a different room.

Dr Ro: Because now becomes just the screen, it becomes what I’ve read on Facebook. Then it creates this desire I’ve got to have that now and then we’re back to that cycle.

Sarah: Have boundaries with social media. If you enjoy the scrolling and looking at other people’s lives that’s fine but limit it. It serves a lot of us in business so be intentional and keep that question in your mind what am I on here to do?

Dr Ro: That’s a great word. 

As someone that has been in this field for so long one of my chapters in the turning point is about language and words. Words that we use define very much how we live our lives. The fact you’ve used the word intention there is massive so being intentional as opposed to randomly using that tool is massively different to your business.

Sarah: You’ve got to keep your mind on track with what you’re on there to do, what you’re on there to achieve. As the distraction is so easy to click and before you know it you’re looking at a new baby. 

Conscious awareness as you’re working and it is practice.

If you want to keep the enjoyment part of scrolling keep that separate and don’t get it all mixed up together.

Dr Ro: I’m going to be devil’s advocate. Listeners might say she found it really easy to put the phone away and just switch off. 

That can’t have been easy?

 Sarah: No. 

All these skills and habits and disciplines you create they’re never easy.

What that sentence looks like is years and years and that time got shorter before I realised I picked the phone up and it gets to a point you realise you’ve picked the phone up and you immediately put it back down again. Then there will be a point where you never pick the phone up. It’s just consciousness and persisting with it. when you’re mapping out the day or when you’re building a business or what you want to do in that time it will never go to plan the first time.

Dr Ro: I had a client who was similar to the phone it was to do with emails. I just got her to wear a strong elastic band on the wrist and every time she went to pick up the phone or do something that she didn’t want to do she had to pull the band and after a while it was just like I’ll stop doing it. 

I’m not suggesting everybody does that, but it might be something you need to just do there has to be a reason not to pick the phone and if your kids which they should be a reason, if they’re not because you think it’s another deal you’re just sitting there in one hand you’ve got what happens if I don’t? 

What are the consequences if I keep leaving my kids? 

What message am I giving to my kids versus that one phone call and one has to outweigh the other.

Sarah: You’ve got to find a way that works for you. 

In the past people have said what if my mum wants to call me, then get a separate phone. Get a different phone for your family and work. There is always an answer, sometimes it’s just easier to make an excuse for yourself. 

To quote Tony Robbins you have to think about the quality of life by the quality of the questions you ask yourself, how are you going to find those questions that are going to get you to where you want to be?

Harms: Absolutely. 

We have spoken a lot about success in business, but let’s narrow down now on network marketing specifically, from your viewpoint Sarah what are the biggest challenges you’ve seen in the network marketing industry?

Sarah: I think the stigma attached to it, so there’s a misunderstanding of what it is. I suppose that one of my purposes today is to educate people on what it actually is and I’m passionate about that because it has transformed my life and I know many others. I think it’s such a great opportunity and option for so many people to not look at it because of someone else’s opinion that is uneducated is such a shame. 

So that’s a big challenge and to overcome that when you’re working in the industry your beliefs just have to be stronger than other people’s opinions and you have to know the facts. You can’t listen to someone else and ride on their belief. It has to be internal within you. You have to go deep rooted to the bottom of why you believe this is an incredible opportunity for people you have to have that fundamental belief.

Dr Ro: In fairness, I think anyone going into business that has to be the case. Whether you’re going to start a shop on the High Street selling clothes or making cakes or Internet business like Harms specialises in, or property. 

It’s not enough just to watch somebody and then believe what they say you’ve got to study the industry; you’ve got to get involved. Learn about it, so you’re prepared to defend it from a place of knowledge. 

What you know to be a genuinely legitimate business that you’re going into.

Sarah: Totally, it’s becoming a professional in anything you do. 

Any industry you’re working in you have to become the pro. You have to do it right and do it well and also know that you are in it for the long haul. There’s a lot of stuff around the industry to get rich quick and this will happen overnight and it’s sold sometimes like that but that’s not the reality for anything. 

The only way that you achieve great success is consistent repetition and practice and relentlessness and discipline and habits and everything that comes into making a success of anything really. 

So yeah, a lot of people are deluded and what it’s going to take.

Dr Ro: Do you think that’s a challenge due to the perception that’s been created by people outside of the industry?

Sarah: No in the industry unfortunately.

People doing it badly like there is an all industry and that’s not necessarily their fault, it might be they’ve just not got to that point or understood that yet or been trained about that.

Dr Ro: I do agree with you for our listeners. I previously was involved in a network marketing business in the 80s and back in those days, a lot of it was hype and even that was like, 20, 30 years ago. Still some of that stigma as you’ve mentioned has pervaded into the 21st century where we are today without realising it. 

It’s a very powerful legitimate business that, if built properly with the right systems, is extremely lucrative for people but also gives people time and I think unfortunately that hard work ethic and the professionalism has been lost with still traces of stigma from 20 or 30 years ago.

Harms: If we look externally would you say Sarah as you would have interacted with people of my generation would you say that they have this desire for an instant win? 

Bearing in mind when we talk about how long it takes to business it could be 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, but a lot of people who start a business, any kind of business is because they want to change and now is a perfect time to change. 

So what have you observed in my generation with this whole instant win?

Sarah: Totally different generations with millennial’s today they look for the instant lifestyle. I think from training and coaching that’s why I make the point that this is going to take time. 

Even before people start the business I’m trying to put them off to make sure they’re not going to be flaky and think it’s going to happen overnight and this is what you can achieve but it’s going to take years of dedication and hard work and persistence and it’s not going to go right a lot of the time and you’re going to have to a lot of rejection, but you have to keep going anyway. Are you prepared to do that? 

I think as long as you’re clear on that, that generation there are so many incredible things in my business such hard workers and people showing what is possible for others by building incredible businesses and it fits so well into social media today. Because they’re simply building their businesses through Instagram, through social media, which I’ve never done and I’ve never really used social media to build my own personal business.

Dr Ro: Do you think that typical age group 25 to 35 do you think even now, they’re still looking for a quick fix?

Harms: I would say yes, I would say because the way the world around us has shaped us social media gives you an instant endorphin kick. You can go to McDonald’s and get a burger within less than two minutes when you get to a restaurant if my food is not here within five minutes, a freshly cooked meal there’s a frustration building up. 

The way the online world is if you are desiring change you’re going to be presented with lots of adverts that help you make a change, but they’re going to grab your attention by saying we can make it happen for you quicker. 

Quick is different in everybody’s psyche as we know I think for my generation quick is a lot shorter than what it should be.

Dr Ro: You’ve grown up in a world of instant for everything. 

There is so much stuff that it is just a different world so it’s not a detriment to your characters it’s just thinking how do you teach delayed gratification.

Which is a great word, it’s been around for so many years and I still think it carries a lot of weight today. People of my generation kind of get that. I grew up in a period where you put the hours in, you put the work in and I’m unfortunate I’ve got people like Harms around me that bring me into social media because I resisted it for years. Even the Dr Ro brand when you met me I didn’t really want to push it out there. 

People say you’ve got such a great message just share it on social media and I was not. I’ll just talk to audiences and Harms was saying you can only get to 200, 300 people or 1,000 or 10,000 but on the Internet, you get to hundreds of thousands. 

So how do you deal with that within your industry?

Sarah: For that generation I teach how I did it myself before social media. In 2008 on Facebook you used to write messages on people’s walls. It was very different even in 2008, 12 years ago, so I would just talk to people. 

I teach people how to connect in person with people and be a constant network and build your network through referrals and meeting people along the way, because the key lesson is just finding the joy. 

The most important thing is you enjoy the day-to-day doing of the activity so no matter what age you are if you don’t enjoy being on social media and you enjoy being in person connecting with real people build your business that way. You can learn either way. Both are possible. 

It’s finding what suits you, what fits with you and that’s where you’ll have success if you’re enjoying the doing.

Dr Ro: Do you find people of the older generation get into the marketing industry do they have old beliefs that they have to rewire that might be different to the younger ones coming through? 

I still see it when I go to my audiences people say to me these people are half my age they’ve got more energy and are more connected. I’m not sure if I can do this. Do you find that some of the older generation have been wired with a set of beliefs that have to be unwired to be then rewired differently?

Sarah: Yeah definitely, there is a longer period of time where things haven’t been serving them are more hardwired. It’s an awareness of that again. And then I think what happens in our industry is someone finds someone they relate to or someone who is inspirational to them that they connect to and think if they’ve done it then maybe I can too. 

Having that person to be their role model and also point out to that generation what they bring that younger generation don’t bring. 

As everyone brings something different through the generations and they bring a lot of the time an assertiveness in themselves a confidence, wisdom, life experience. There’s so much that age group brings that gives so much to the millennial’s and vice versa. 

It’s being open to learn from everyone.

Dr Ro: If there is anyone listening to this who is in the category 50, 60 years of age I can share my experience from audiences all over the world don’t let that little block stop you from doing this. 

There are so many opportunities out there where you have something like this where there are amazing people that have already succeeded and are prepared to help you, often that’s that first step of reaching out and saying okay I’m humble enough and ready to take some guidance. Once that door opens, gosh, it’s like a flood.

Sarah: Totally. It’s okay with asking and being a constant student and if you don’t know anything it’s fine you can learn all the skills you need to learn to do this business, this industry.

Dr Ro: We talked about Tony Robbins and one of his biggest, I think one of the biggest messages he’s done for the last 30, 40 years is to model people find someone who’s great at what they do and model them. I know so many people model your approach as well.

Sarah: Yeah, that’s definitely true, it’s just that belief when you see someone else you think if they could do it I think I can.

Dr Ro: Network marketing like I think all businesses have tough times and I’m sure you’ve gone through this when things felt like nothing was happening or going slowly and that goal you talked about that purpose seems like it’s a million miles away from what the vision is that you have in your mind. 

I know life is a lot better than it was 10 years ago, but I’m sure you still face challenges like with Covid you had to adjust very quickly but what’s your approach?

Sarah: We’ve definitely had lots of challenges in the industry and I think it’s having a default mode when there’s a challenge automatically thinking brilliant. This is where the opportunity lies and just training yourself and your leaders to get into that state of nothing ever changes. You don’t become better through the great times that’s comfortable just going in doing the same thing. 

But when challenges come and it’s uncomfortable and nobody likes to change really it’s accepting that this is where the growth is going to happen. This is where we can find opportunity and once we are passed it on the other side I always say a year from today when we look back we won’t even remember what really happened, it will be in the past. But right now it feels big but it won’t do in a years’ time. 

Also making sure you don’t miss the opportunity for the growth that’s there, taking time to reflect on the time you’ve been through and thinking how did I handle it? 

What could I have done differently?

What could I have done better and take that moment to think at least I have got something from it. 

So next time when that happens, I’ll do this, I’ll deal with that. I think the only constant is change. We always know things are going to be changing to be adaptable.

Dr Ro: What you’re saying is the first thing going into your mind is okay there is a change happening, but in your mind change equals opportunity. Change equals a chance to grow. 

That’s Sarah Dunning’s default position. 

It’s not going to be easy but because it’s a change it’s a chance to make a difference and do something practical.

Sarah: It comes with practice that; s never going to happen immediately, but with constant challenge over 12 years from the first challenge I had three into my business to where I am now we’ve had challenges, I’ve just dealt with it so differently. I’ve learnt from past experiences and have taken the opportunity to reflect and think next time this happens, what will I do differently? 

Now I really do get excited with challenges. I think this is amazing. 

This is where my leadership is going to go to the next level. This is so exciting and that energy goes through to your leaders and filters through to your team. But you have to be the constant, steady centred peaceful person that’s going to be calm with whatever is happening and people take strength from that, I think.

Dr Ro: This ties into your whole philosophy about having a sense of purpose, those quiet moments of meditation, reflect on that, phones away from me. 

Okay, now you can see a way forward. You look back at what you’ve done in the past and what worked and what didn’t work, you carry the great things forward and then the next step beyond that is having realised that change is an opportunity what is your typical approach then?

Do you reach out to people around you to bring the right people into to go through that next step?

Sarah: Yeah, I make sure that all the people that are directly impacted are on board with that philosophy and thought.

Dr Ro: A common message goes out to the close people in your team that this is what we’re going to be doing?

Sarah: Yeah, totally and I give them that support. The reality is we don’t know what’s going on inside different people’s heads, your teams and you always want to make sure that you’ve got that openness to people to come and speak to you if they’re concerned about anything. It’s not a case of masking over it and saying just smile and carry on, it’s working through it and then if you’ve got something troubling you or something you can’t get past then speak to me directly and we’ll talk through it and work through it.

Dr Ro: That’s amazing.

Harms: Ro would you be open just talking to the space for a second because the word jumping out to me is communication. 

What are your thoughts on that?

Dr Ro: I think Sarah has nailed it. 

The minute we step away from a fear or a change and we don’t communicate about it, my experience is the people around us have similar fears, it actually magnifies their fear by not communicating with impact. We’re saying I’ve got the same fear as you haven’t got a clue what to do, whereas you’re doing the opposite. 

You’re saying, let’s communicate openly and these are my beliefs, this is what we can do, everyone gets behind that and that commutation becomes a common theme throughout the whole business.

Sarah: Exactly that sentence. Communication is the key. That’s one thing I’ve learned, above everything else, because unless you’re directly communicating with the person that has got the challenge you need to make sure that everyone is directly communicated with and always honest and open and willing to say I’m sorry.

Dr Ro: Just being a mirror to you and I’m not here to blow Sarah up but one of your greatest qualities is your authenticity. When I teach people about communication I say that it is so important to have an authentic message and it’s okay if nobody likes you for it but be yourself and I think that whole journey you took us on from your mum, your dad growing up is still in you. 

That pureness is still there and I think it’s a great quality that you have, which I believe is one of your greatest assets.

Sarah: Thank you.

I think forgiveness for yourself and other people and a great lesson I’ve learnt is that the most challenging people in your life right now, the people you’re irritated by they’re there to teach you. Every time we have a challenge just breathe and this is a big lesson for my soul growth. 

This person is here for a reason again when you’re in a challenging time growth doesn’t happen when it’s all great, happy, and fabulous.

Dr Ro: Exactly. 

We are so in our own skin and our own heads that when we’re thinking that person pees me off we forget that maybe we do the same for them. Maybe we are there to bring something to their soul as well, so it is kind of a mutual prophecy now we’re exchanging a point in time. Then we go for that person. But there is a lesson in both of those journeys. 

I remember Sarah speaking at a conference in Birmingham and I took the audience through a journey out to the future and then we went back through somewhere in the future from your success all the way through all the lives that were changed, to the lessons that we learned and what you described is very much that journey of taking your life lessons. 

Looking at the future, anticipating things and then allowing yourself to bring that knowledge to the table for the next adversity that comes along.

Sarah: Totally one of my top leaders we had a challenging time recently and we were on Zoom and I said are you okay Mel? 

She said I’ve been preparing for this for 12 years and I am ready.

Dr Ro: That is amazing. 

Talking about tough times and you shared with the listeners ways that you openly communicate with your team and yourself internally in order to manage these times.

Harms: Now let’s shift forward to Ro you mentioned the vision in the future. 

That’s the goal. Sarah, do you have any tips for listeners in business, anybody in network marketing, anyone thinking about network marketing when they enter this business, how do they make their goals a reality?

Sarah: The first thing I do is create a plan you need to know what you have to do. 

Once you’ve set your goals for your five year, three- and one-year goal working backwards you need to know what action you have to do every day to make that goal inevitable. Once you’ve got that list then it’s creating the discipline to not miss a day. 

Just raise everything in life to standards of excellence. Keep asking yourself how do I get on the success curve? 

Which is from the slight edge and it is a question I used to repeat to myself all the time in that first couple of years. Was this putting me on the success curve or the failure curve? 

In every choice you make you’re going on one of those routes and there is never a middle ground and that’s where we trick ourselves into thinking.

Dr Ro: Also that busyness, it’s a bit of transfer from the 80s and 90s, if you get busier you get results, but actually not anymore. Being busy doesn’t mean to say that you’re going to get results.

Sarah: Exactly so be conscious, know what you’ve got to do, when it’s got to be done getting the other stuff in your life you want to do. Getting the balance. Create a plan for getting the discipline to do those habits even when they’re uncomfortable and you don’t want to do them. 

Connecting that doing of the action that’s going to lead to the ultimate outcome. There were lots of things I didn’t want to do in my business when I first started and it was so out of my comfort zone. I used to connect that action if I don’t take this action now that goal is not going to happen. It’s like if I don’t do it today why, would I do it tomorrow so I need to take action now for that to become a reality. 

It’s connecting the action to the ultimate outcome.

Dr Ro: What is your approach to setting these goals because I think it’s something that some people do really well. Others talk about it but don’t achieve it. Y

ou’ve clearly achieved it. How does Sarah set a goal? 

Because some people’s goals are set and you and I might look at it and go, that’s kind of unrealistic. 

How do you say coach or work with some of the people coming through your industry or business to help them realise what is and I don’t like to use the word realistic I think that’s an unfair statement. 

But someone might want to achieve a certain number of people in the business within the next week and you know there’s even a physical process of doing that. So how do you help people set those goals so that they are pragmatic and realistic goals that can be done in the timeframe you know is possible.

Sarah: Yeah, I think it has come from experience of watching it happen a lot. I now know what it takes, so I suppose you’d ask a mentor or find someone that has been successful in your industry or your business. 

This might be the same for salespeople; it’s a numbers game, so you need to know what number you need to initially start with. It’s like property, you need to fill the filter at the top. It is the same thing. 

So what’s the number you start with which leads to the next phase, which leads to the next phase and leads to the result and once you know that you can then work, break it down into daily actions which will lead to whatever a month.

Harms: You mentioned the word mentors. 

How have they played a role in your life and if you talk to my generation now and say, is a mentor important, are they critical to your success?

What’s your mindset when somebody approaches you talking about a mentor or coach?

Sarah: It is essential really. I see it as a time machine. You can take 10 years to do something that you learn how to do and master so why would you take 10 years when you can do it six months. If someone’s been there and done it. Learn through all the mistakes and what not to do and have given you a shortcut.

Again it’s trust. 

With a mentor you have to really trust that person. You have to know what they’re about, have a massive amount of respect. That comes in my business you earn the respect from doing the work and demonstrating you know what you’re doing. 

You can’t fake it or be a fraud.

Dr Ro: In the years I’ve gone and spoken at conferences where there has been network marketing events that’s the one thing that shone out for me is doesn’t matter what we might say the perception is or some of the stigma from the path, when you’re actually inside that space, and you see the work and effort the people have put in that’s when you realise they’ve earned this. 

They’ve earned the right to stand there and to share their story because they’ve put those hours in and now they can teach somebody else.

Sarah: Totally, you do get great leaders in this industry because you also have to remain relatable because that’s the whole point. People have got to look at you and think if you can I can.

Dr Ro: Two things, both of them I think are challenges people have so I want to go back to your question Harms. 

What are the blocks to people going to a mentor and asking for example in your industry, in my mind what I’ve experienced is when I was first teaching property out in my early 30s, people used to be like I’m 20 years older than you. 

I’ve got someone who’s 55 saying what can you teach Minato a lot of support for the properties in the first hat how you what the blocks that me? I say I’ve bought 40 properties. What are the blocks that stop people going and reaching out to ask somebody for help in your industry or what you’ve seen generally.

Sarah: It’s slightly different in our industry because it is free and it’s accessible.

Dr Ro: Does egos come in?

Sarah: It’s a pride thing. 

A lot of people have this thing of I must know everything, I don’t want to look stupid. That’s one thing that has been in my favour from a young age. I have always been quite open to say I don’t know this. I need to learn that; how do I do that. It’s a mode that I’ve always been in. 

The constant student is the only way I can describe it, everyone can teach you something and everything can teach you something. It’s having that openness to think what’s the lesson in this? 

What’s the lesson from that person? 

Whether it’s a good lesson or a bad lesson. Maybe if there’s monetary value to it it’s thinking it is going to be worth it? is it going to be worth the value and it always is I think. 

But if you’ve got an expert in their field and they know they’ve done what you want to achieve there’s no question about whether it is worth it or not.

 Dr Ro: Do you find there’s a certain generation that tends to resist it more than others?

Sarah: I don’t know really.

Dr Ro: I think you’re right actually; I see it a lot and it pees me off sometimes because there is an arrogance that people think they can do it themselves. For example in your industry no way can you do it yourself. But if you look at most businesses you need people around you, you need mentors. 

On that note and this is where the curveball comes in about couples, what happens when you have one person that’s absolutely, I do want to do this and you’ve got one whose like the brakes on that dragster we talked about. Whether it’s the husband or the wife, the other partner, whoever it is doesn’t really matter.

What’s a good way to overcome that? I can actually guarantee having spoken at several events in network marketing. I know it’s a big one, but you are in the industry. It is a big subject.

Sarah: There are loads of different reasons behind it and it is different every time. It’s the fear that person is going to grow and leave them and it won’t help the relationship but that is never the case. I say to people if this is going to make your partner happy doing this don’t you want them to be happy? 

A lot of the time it is an education and I find from getting on a call or speaking directly because the messages never come across quite the same when it’s coming from their partner. I say let me speak to them. Let me tell them why you see this as an opportunity and what it could be for both of you. 

Again communication. 

Communication is always the key, and so it’s a clear education on actually what this is and what it’s going to be and what it’s going to take and there may be some sacrifices but it will be worth it for the whole family. If they’re willing to go for this and it can be a family thing too.

Dr Ro: Going back to the bigger purpose of why this is being done. The greater good of the whole business has been built.

Harms: I do agree with you Ro it’s a massive question because why does Sarah have to talk to one of the couples? 

Why can the couple together resolve this to know that doing this, makes someone happy, takes their family forward? It’s exciting. 

Why does a Ro have to explain to a couple that investing in property is a no-brainer. Network marketing is a no-brainer.

Dr Ro: It’s nothing to do with the industry so if Sarah’s in front of them or her members of the leadership is there it’s about a couple so that comes down to the relationship and how it has developed over the years. 

Their core values maybe they’re going different directions even and often what an opportunity like network marketing or property or going onto the Internet it suddenly magnifies that because it’s something we could do together. 

But now it’s revealing some cracks that might be there that has to be worked on as well.

Sarah: It is different for all relationships.

Dr Ro: Do you have a conversation where you say like I’ll say to somebody, my suggestion is if he or she doesn’t want to do it, just do it anyway. Do it for them. 

Just ask for some support but don’t hold back because they don’t want to do it because that’s their beliefs versus yours. Do you have to have those conversations, or do you tend not to say that?

Sarah: All the time. 

It is important to do what you want to do as well, and ultimately if that person loves you and supports you all they should really want is your happiness.

Dr Ro: Exactly. that is me and you saying that so if you are Listening you might be nudging your partner saying see they’re saying this stuff.

Sarah: All it is is fear. If it’s not for their happiness it’s a fear.

Dr Ro: I’d put my hand up and say I’ve been there and know what it feels like and it’s okay to acknowledge it. The minute you say I have got fear now we can start to work on it.

Sarah: I’ve had so many couples in my business where it began like that and now the partners have gone on the personal development journey with them because they made the choice and saw they were going to get left behind and they decided to maybe not do the business.

But they read the same books and listened to the same audios and podcasts and their relationships completely transformed because of that personal development journey.

Dr Ro: Obviously, you get inspired by people around you and sometimes when you get to a certain level I get questioned who mentors me? Who do I get inspired by? 

The way the structure of a network marketing business is you have people that introduce you in, you have other people that you bring into the business or you see across that have come in over the last few years. 

What are some of the qualities that Sarah Dunning has been inspired by within your industry? 

Whether it’s maybe across industry or down into the peak. 

Some people you have seen in more recent years or people who have been around for a while. It’s quite nice to just get a sense of what inspires you and what some of their qualities and characteristics and if you’re listening just write some of these down because I think these are about modelling, and if this has been an inspiration for Sarah and she’s taken that on board, then why wouldn’t you want to do the same thing?

Sarah: Yeah, definitely several people spring to mind. A lot of it has come from books and audio and being a big fan of certain people like Wayne Dyer. 

Within our organisation there are so many incredible leaders I really looked up to and a lot of the time not known but observed from their training and now are really great friends. 

I’ve become such good friends and what they all have in common I remember in my first couple years actually going to a big annual conference is thinking I’m going to really study and watch what they all have in common. What do people who have a massive success in this company have in common, and the only way I could identify it at the time was they are all calm. 

Which I now realise is peace.

A sense of self-love, and they were all good with themselves and I knew what my journey was and where I had to get to that high self-worth and self-love.

Dr Ro: Did that transcend across all age groups?

Sarah: Yeah, I think at the time 12 years ago a lot of the top leaderships were in their 50s, 60s, 70s, whereas now this industry has become so appealing to the millennials. A lot of top leaders are in their 20s. It’s amazing. So inspiring to see what they do. 

In recent years, our CEO actually just to me is the epitome of leadership. 

He is open, humble, a great listener and takes everyone’s opinions on board but also has this sense of strength and is willing to make the tough decisions that are so uncomfortable to make that have to be made for the greater good of all. And just the way he communicates that’s what it comes down to. The words he chooses to use are how he engages with everybody, how we feel comfortable to talk to him but he has still got that strength and he is great at trust, a really strong trust. 

He repeats the question all the time he says do you trust me? We are all like yes we do.

Dr Ro: That is a word that has come all the way through this podcast right.

Sarah:Over the last few years I’ve learned from him watching how he talks to people, how he engages in the leadership team.

Dr Ro: Every quality you described there is beautiful and I think we are in a time where people are looking out into the world and questioning leadership generally globally and those are the qualities that we want to see, but sadly I don’t think many people are seeing. 

We’re starting to look elsewhere for it and if it’s showing up in businesses like yours and other areas even some great celebrities now, actors and actresses are coming forward and making really bold statements about what they believe in authentically I just think there’s a definite shift in consciousness happening at the moment.

Sarah: That’s one of my purposes in the business. I say to my team there has never been more of a desperate need for leadership like true authentic leadership. This company is a leadership program. 

That’s what it is ultimately. 

You develop to become the best version of you and the world needs that. We need people with platforms and influencers that are doing the right things for the world.

Dr Ro: That is so true and you said something which you know you passed over it because you’re describing something, but a statement you made there was making the tough decisions that sometimes no one else wants to make and I think in any business, if you can get to that place where you are comfortable making them even though they may not feel comfortable that really helps in your growth as a human being and as an entrepreneur.

Sarah: Totally, it’s having the confidence in yourself to make the decision and knowing that you won’t always be popular and it’s not about being the most liked human being it’s about doing the right for the greater good. 

Dr Ro: I’m clapping, I got goosebumps when you said that because I think that’s one of our greatest challenges as human beings. 

Right now in our world we want to be liked and you know it’s more about inspiring people than impressing, and I think that’s something you’ve done amazingly well during the course of this podcast. Harms and I have only chosen a handful of people to come on as guests. 

We are at 10,000 downloads already. 

We’ve pretty much designed and done this ourselves so, in choosing people to come on we’ve been very careful and Sarah I wanted to bring on because of her qualities. I think you’ll agree that what you’ve shared has been inspirational. 

Are there either any last words of wisdom for anybody listening. What are some of the steps that people can do next if they want to go out, build a business get into Internet marketing. Just do something for themselves make a change in their loves, what will be a few pointers from you.

Sarah: Have courage you don’t have to have confidence when you start but you have to be courageous to do things that other people aren’t going to like in your life.

You have to be clear on what you want to achieve and then really get your blinkers on and just think this is where I’m going, doesn’t matter what anyone else is thinking of saying or doing around me because that’s the reality. 

The majority of people are walking left, and you’ve got to go right. Get yourself a plan, get clear on your goals and actions that you need to make the goals happen. Now it’s worth it. Connect to what the ultimate outcome is going to be. 

Create the discipline and strong powerful habits in your daily routines and absolutely find that hour to invest in yourself where you’re doing affirmations, visualisation, meditation, reading a great book for half an hour just to implement those few things. 

Get to grips with those and change a lot of your subconscious programming that you might not know is there. Those things are holding back that absolutely you are able to change them and you have to change them to create success. But first become aware of them and go about reprogramming yourself to know that you are absolutely worthy of success and you can create what you want to create. 

But you have to be willing to intentionally work at it every day.

Harms: Incredible final message.

That’s Sarah, Dr Ro and myself signing out. We shall see you on the next episode of the Seekardo podcast.